graymouser

It is fairly striking to me that some of the purity regulations in Zoroastrianism and Judaism are similar. Is there much serious scholarship on influences from Zoroastrianism (or proto-Zoroastrian / Mazdaist Iranian religion) on Judaism? Is this hindered by the overall poor records of ancient Iranian history and the lack of a complete Avesta or Gathas? Is there a consensus on Zoroastrian currents in Judaism?

Thanks for any insight that can be provided.

-Wayne

Toto

This essay is not footnoted, but seems fairly comprehensive:

Zoroastrianism, Christianity, and Judaism

There is more here

graymouser

Thanks. It's an interesting article - I just wonder if the author takes a limited view of Zoroastrian influence by holding to what is undoubtedly a pre-exilic theory of Torah authorship. I'll read the further article later.

Anybody else do a lot of looking at Zoroastrian / Judaism connections?

-Wayne

Boro Nut

Not really, but I was always puzzled by the popularity of Zoroastrianism. I can see how Judaism took off in Judea because Moses was almost a local lad. You'd think it would be the same in Mexico, but Zoro is a peripheral figure in comparison to some like Zappata. So why the god-like status in Persia/India? Is it the influence of Bollywood perhaps?

Boro Nut

PS - Why are so many Mexican politicians called Viva?

capnkirk

Over the past couple of months I have been reading everything I can get my hands on with respect to Zorastrianism. The best book I have found so far is The Dawn and Twilight of Zoroastrianism by R. C. Zaehner. With a 1961 copyright it is not easy to find, but it does have the advantage of having been written by a scholar of Eastern Religions and not with the idea of drawing connections with Judaism or Xtianity. While some connections are noted in passing, most are left for the reader to recognize and glean for himself.

I just read through the linked article, and while it is generally accurate, there are several significant errors in it with respect to the history of Zoroastrianism. The significance of these errors does not necessarily impact Judaic connections full-force, they do make some differences.

From the article: "The Gathas of Zarathushtra, which may pre-date Cyrus by almost a thousand years, do describe God in universalist and abstract terms, but by the time of the Jewish contact, it is unclear just what type of monotheism was believed in the Zoroastrian community."
Response: The traditional date Zoroastrians (Z'ians) assign to their Prophet is '258 years before Alexander', and for the Persian of Iranian the name Alexander can only have meant the sack of Persepolis in 330 BCE. That would make the assigned date 588 BCE, and refers to the time of the initial success of his prophetic mission (when he was 40 years old). Said to have lived 77 years, Zoroaster (Z) would have lived 628-551 BCE. This would make Z'ism a very young religion in Cyrus' time, and contemporary with Jewish Exilic exposure. Z himself was the author of the gathas, making them also new in Cyrus' time. The apparent basis for the pre-dating stems from parallels with the polytheistic heirarchy of the Rig-Veda from which Z'ism selected a single deity and elevated him to supremacy and making many of the other gods into attributes of the single deity (Ahura-Mazda) much the same way as early Xtian theologians conceptualized the "Trinity" (note: In later writings (ca. 400-200 BCE, several of these god entities were again worshipped as separate gods, and creating a lot of confusion among scholars about just when and how Z'ism evolved). The trinity parallel is probably just that, as is the Jewish parallel of 'extracting YHWH from the pantheon of Baal and declaring him the one true god.

In the light of the preceding, now re-read the passage from the article: "Was it a true monotheism which worships only One God, to whom all other gods are either evil demons or simply non- existent? This seems to be the monotheism of Zarathushtra (emphasis mine), but not of the Achaemenid kings of the Persian Empire, who were able to incorporate the veneration of subordinate divinities into their worship, as long as these subordinates were recognized as creations of the One God and not gods in their own right. The Jews, as we will see, would recognize angels as semi-divine intermediaries, but would not go so far as the Zoroastrians in honoring those intermediaries with hymns of praise such as the Yashts.

One of the most important differences beween Jewish monotheism and Zoroastrian monotheism is that Jews recognize the one God as the source of both good and evil, light and darkness, while Zoroastrians, during all the phases of their long theological history, think of God only as the source of Good, with Evil as a separate principle. There is a famous passage in Second Isaiah, composed during or after the Exile, which is sometimes cited as a Jewish rebuke to the Zoroastrian idea of a dualistic God: "I am YHVH, unrivalled: I form the light and create the dark. I make good fortune and create calamity, it is I, YHVH, who do all this." (Isaiah 45:7) This passage, which is a major source for Jewish speculation on the source of good and evil in the world, denies the Zoroastrian idea of a God who is the source only of "good" and favorable things." If Z was only a generation or two older than Cyrus' then the Z'ism that they were exposed to was more like that of the gathas than like that of the rest of the Avesta, and would imply that the quote in Isaiah dates from a later period, probably some time in the 4th Cent BCE. and clearly post exhilic.

This is just a taste of what is available for investigation. I hope it has whetted some appetites.

__________________
Enterprise...OUT.

Toto

The Dawn and Twilight of Zoroastrianism seems to be available on Amazon.

graymouser

capnkirk:

So, what do you think the late dating of Zarathushtra means for Judiasm - do the parallels mean a later development date for the Hebrew Bible, or that the Jews borrowed more from the pre-Zoroastrian Mazdaist religion of the earlier Achemenids?

I'll be getting this book soon - thanks for the tip.

-Wayne

judge

I would be very interested in any connection between the purity regulations. I think it would make a lot of sense if there was a conection.

Does anyone know whether R.C. Zaehner has much to say on this?

I found this quote re: escahtology on the web, but am not sure of conclusions re "purity regulations".


"The case for a judeo-christian dependence on Zoroastrianism in its purely eschatological thinking is quite different. And not at all convincing, for apart from a few hints in the Gathas which we shall shortly be considering and a short passage in Yasht 19.80-90 in which a deathless existence in body and soul at the end of time is affirmed, we have no evidence as to what eschatological ideas the Zoroastrians had in the last four centuries before Christ. The eschatologies of the Pahlavi books, though agreeing in their broad outlines, differ very considerably in detail and emphasis; they do not correspond at all closely to the eschatological writings of the intertestimentary period nor to those of St. Paul and the apocalypse of St. John. They do, however, agree that there will be a general resurrection of the body as well as soul, but this idea would be the natural corollary to the survival of the soul as a moral entity, once that had been accepted, since both Jew and Zoroastrian regarded soul and body as being two aspects, ultimately inseperable, of the one human personality." -- R.C. Zaehner, The Dawn and Twilight of Zoroastrianism. G.P. Putnam's Sons. New York. 1961. Pg. 57

Chris Weimer

its a little off-topic, but does anyone know about Etruscan influence in the Old Testament. I can't find anything online. Philistines, Jebusites, and Hittites are the ones that come to mind.

offa

#1647713 / #9

its a little off-topic, but does anyone know about Etruscan influence
in the Old Testament. I can't find anything


That is a very interesting question. My pithy knowledge has never
included the Etruscans. The carry-over would have to occur after
Romulus-Remus in 7 hundred something b.c.e.

The story about Noah's flood was Persian (Gilgamesh). Noah was
translated from Persian to Hebrew. Then came the Greeks (Alexander)
and then came the Romans (Pompey). The Etruscans were originally
Roman and then Greek?


Your very interesting question may solve some mysteries.


Their religion sounds like it may have influenced the Pharisees as
opposed to the Sadducees (about the afterlife).

Offa