Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Randy X · 02-23-2004, 10:15 AM

Quote:

We still believe the Bible is free from errors. You would, of course, have to understand that each book in the Bible was written at specific times and so the language and events were for the people living in that time.

What adds to the authenticity of the Bible is how well history and subtle elements in the stories and slang and names of places (that are unfamiliar to us today) work, which suggests that such account did take place, and people were well aware of them. I�ve put up some of these examples in the thread.

In fact, from studying the languages of the original Hebrew and the incorporations of other words and languages that are found in specific books said to be written during specific times, was used to prove that the books of the Old Testament as well as the Gospels were really written during the times the writers claimed it was, when many critics of the Bible claimed that they were written many years after and so would be unreliable in many aspects, those criticisms were proven false, I will recommend some people to research if you�re interested.

Of course looking at things in our time and in our language and our way of understanding things, some things will be lost, even in translation where the old Hebrew words had multiple meanings, and usually incorporated all those meanings into the same sentence. Of course, such things can be clarified by scholars, or by research.

It is good to question some things, as you can be lead to a deeper understanding of it. I will try and provide more info to support the Bible�s authenticity later on.

The above quote is from a Christian that I debated with. I thought it would be best to present it here. Need I say any more?

Sincerely,

Christ

Plognark · 02-23-2004, 11:04 AM

So are you still waiting for the "evidence" of authenticity?

JTurtle · 02-23-2004, 11:40 AM

so i dont see what ur getting at?! obviously ur not proclaiming to be a Christian, so r u saying there are contradictions in the Bible?! please, i ask u to even show me just ONE....show me just ONE contradiction, i mean since the bible is "nonsense" you should b able to come up with something right?! i'll chek up on ur reply later....peace

Amaleq13 · 02-23-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JTurtle
so i dont see what ur getting at?! obviously ur not proclaiming to be a Christian, so r u saying there are contradictions in the Bible?! please, i ask u to even show me just ONE....show me just ONE contradiction, i mean since the bible is "nonsense" you should b able to come up with something right?! i'll chek up on ur reply later....peace

You might want to consider the numerous examples provided in this thread: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=72816

Randy X · 02-23-2004, 12:43 PM

JTurtle,

so i dont see what ur getting at?! obviously ur not proclaiming to be a Christian, so r u saying there are contradictions in the Bible?!

You would be correct, I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist.

Second, I brought up that quote because I think its a load of hogwash. Consider it like a case study.

please, i ask u to even show me just ONE....show me just ONE contradiction, i mean since the bible is "nonsense" you should b able to come up with something right?! i'll chek up on ur reply later....peace

Um, are you serious?

Sincerely,

Christ

Randy X · 02-23-2004, 12:45 PM

So in the quote I cited, how many errors can you find?

Sincerely,

Christ

The Evil One · 02-23-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JTurtle
please, i ask u to even show me just ONE....show me just ONE contradiction, i mean since the bible is "nonsense" you should b able to come up with something right?! i'll chek up on ur reply later....peace

You asked for JUST ONE? OK, here's JUST ONE.

Quote:

Matthew 1: 15-16:
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3 23-25:
23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
24the son of Heli, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,

What is the name of Joseph's father? Heli or Jacob?

If you ask an apologist, they'll tell you that one of the two genealogies above referes to Mary. This can only be believed if you are willing to assume that the Bible actually means the exact opposite to what it says.

Either way around, we're talking contradiction.

When you've dealt with that one, you can start working on who incited David to take the census - God (2 Samual 24) or Satan (1 Chronicles 21) - funny the way even the Bible writers can't seem to be able to tell those two apart.

spin · 02-23-2004, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JTurtle
so i dont see what ur getting at?! obviously ur not proclaiming to be a Christian, so r u saying there are contradictions in the Bible?! please, i ask u to even show me just ONE....show me just ONE contradiction, i mean since the bible is "nonsense" you should b able to come up with something right?! i'll chek up on ur reply later....peace

Just a few choice ones to start you hedging:

1) Saul died three ways, by his own hand, killed by a shield bearer, and by an Amalekite.
2) Joseph, husband of Mary, had two fathers.
3) Omnipotent God couldn't drive people out because they had chariots of iron (Jdg 1:19)
4) Matthew's double vision -
a, two Gadarene demoniacs, 8:28
b, Jesus heals two blind men, 9:27
c, two more blind men, 20:30ff
d, Jesus rides on two animals, 21:7
then Luke and John do a cameo with
e, two angels in the tomb
the other gospels all have one of each of the above.

There are many, many more.

I don't think the bible is nonsense, but anyone who must defend the problems of the bible narratives is ignorant of ancient texts.

spin

Randy X · 02-23-2004, 01:37 PM

Greetings spin,

I don't think the bible is nonsense

May I ask, why do you think the bible is not nonsense?

Sincerely,

Christ

Shinobi · 02-23-2004, 02:19 PM

The guy you debated hasn't actually said anything. Even if his claim that the bible was written at the time the authors say it was written is true, it still doesn't mean that the events described actually happend. It looks as though he's setting himself up a little shield with the hebrew stuff. He'll probably say that words have double meaning in hebrew or the translation is dodgy if you give him a stright contradiction.

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02-23-2004, 11:04 AM	#2
Plognark Contributor Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 14,952	So are you still waiting for the "evidence" of authenticity?

02-23-2004, 11:40 AM	#3
JTurtle Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 176	so i dont see what ur getting at?! obviously ur not proclaiming to be a Christian, so r u saying there are contradictions in the Bible?! please, i ask u to even show me just ONE....show me just ONE contradiction, i mean since the bible is "nonsense" you should b able to come up with something right?! i'll chek up on ur reply later....peace

02-23-2004, 12:43 PM	#5
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	JTurtle, so i dont see what ur getting at?! obviously ur not proclaiming to be a Christian, so r u saying there are contradictions in the Bible?! You would be correct, I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist. Second, I brought up that quote because I think its a load of hogwash. Consider it like a case study. please, i ask u to even show me just ONE....show me just ONE contradiction, i mean since the bible is "nonsense" you should b able to come up with something right?! i'll chek up on ur reply later....peace Um, are you serious? Sincerely, Christ

02-23-2004, 12:45 PM	#6
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	So in the quote I cited, how many errors can you find? Sincerely, Christ

02-23-2004, 01:37 PM	#9
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	Greetings spin, I don't think the bible is nonsense May I ask, why do you think the bible is not nonsense? Sincerely, Christ

02-23-2004, 02:19 PM	#10
Shinobi Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 357	The guy you debated hasn't actually said anything. Even if his claim that the bible was written at the time the authors say it was written is true, it still doesn't mean that the events described actually happend. It looks as though he's setting himself up a little shield with the hebrew stuff. He'll probably say that words have double meaning in hebrew or the translation is dodgy if you give him a stright contradiction.

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