Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Brion · 05-26-2007, 05:15 AM

Please help settle a disagreement. I have no bible.
Are the Begetters in the 'Begats' -Male ,Female or both; please.

Clouseau · 05-26-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brion

Please help settle a disagreement. I have no bible.

http://www.biblegateway.com/

Brion · 05-26-2007, 06:49 AM

You have to type in a biblical book and number.
I guess I ain't no closer,friend.
Thanks Fer Tryin'.

Clouseau · 05-26-2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brion

You have to type in a biblical book and number.

Don't you get 'Quick search' with a blank space to enter a word?

Brion · 05-26-2007, 11:46 AM

Yes But it doesn't want to know my 'Begat'. And would I know from the names if they were Male or Female ?

Toto · 05-26-2007, 12:35 PM

"Begat" is King James Version lingo. Change the version in the drop down box on top from New International Version to King James Version, and you will get lots of hits, e.g.

Quote:

Genesis 4:18
And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
...

So far, these are all men who are begetting. And if you check the NIV version of that verse

Quote:

18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

Note that the format definition of "beget" indicates that it can mean "mother" or "father." But in Biblical times, the father was used to establish the lineage. Even where Matthew describes Mary giving birth to Jesus, he does not use the word beget:

Quote:

Matthew 1:16

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Brion · 05-26-2007, 12:41 PM

TOTO-Thanks for the info. Someone tried to tell me that Bathsheba 'Begat' ,
as proof to me that the Bible is not Misogynist. Can I take it from your answer that the long lineage in that Book are all Male ? And thanks again for helping me.

Toto · 05-26-2007, 01:09 PM

The language used seems to be that David begat Solomon by Bathsheba, not that Bathsheba begat Solomon.

I don't have time now to check that all the begatters are male - if there are exceptions. someone here will know.

Clouseau · 05-26-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brion

TOTO-Thanks for the info. Someone tried to tell me that Bathsheba 'Begat' ,
as proof to me that the Bible is not Misogynist.

It is quite correct that the same verb that is translated 'beget' is used of Bathsheba.

'Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and he went to her and lay with her. She gave birth to a son, and they named him Solomon.' 2 Sam 12:24 NIV

The same word is used of other women also.

Whether this is misogyny by early English translators, or simply using language plainly, I don't know. Obviously, one cannot say that a man gave birth. The verb can be translated less literally- 'Harry was born to Tom', or, as the NIV usually has it, 'Tom was father to Harry'.

Quote:

Can I take it from your answer that the long lineage in that Book are all Male ?

Lineages are all through males, yes.

05-26-2007, 05:15 AM	#1
Brion Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 628	Begats Please help settle a disagreement. I have no bible. Are the Begetters in the 'Begats' -Male ,Female or both; please.

05-26-2007, 12:41 PM	#7
Brion Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 628	begats TOTO-Thanks for the info. Someone tried to tell me that Bathsheba 'Begat' , as proof to me that the Bible is not Misogynist. Can I take it from your answer that the long lineage in that Book are all Male ? And thanks again for helping me.

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05-26-2007, 06:49 AM	#3
Brion Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 628	You have to type in a biblical book and number. I guess I ain't no closer,friend. Thanks Fer Tryin'.

05-26-2007, 11:46 AM	#5
Brion Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 628	Yes But it doesn't want to know my 'Begat'. And would I know from the names if they were Male or Female ?

05-26-2007, 01:09 PM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The language used seems to be that David begat Solomon by Bathsheba, not that Bathsheba begat Solomon. I don't have time now to check that all the begatters are male - if there are exceptions. someone here will know.

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