Amos

According to me the Gospels take place in the mind of one man who was Joseph the industrious carpenter/sinner. He was a Jew, of course, who was born again and the new dual identity shall be called Jesus who went through Purgatory and in to heaven at the end. The Gospels just show us how to work out our own salvation from rebirth to heaven-on-earth in the same way as Jesus did.

The Gospels also pave the way for a new religion to be taken from Judaism so it would be able to stand on its own etc.

Origen knew better than that but he can't make it public knowledge because that would remove the mystery of faith. JBab and John son of Zebedee were the same John but now you must take the beheading of JBap as an allegory wherein Jesus was set free to work out his own salvation without John of the netherworld (subconscious mind) becoming the leader in this event.

There's a thousand stories but only one truth and where exactly that lies is not important because it must be ours before it can be true . . . which is where and how we bear testimony to truth. Here also the Island of Patmos is an allegory to indicate John's own wold wherein he contemplates the innermost depts of his being.

Kilgore Trout

How interesting that John the Baptist was able to talk to jesus on the cross and write books of the bible even after he was beheaded!

funinspace

Wow. I think I will have to place that right up there with "The 12th Planet". Well thanks for stating where you are coming from. Not sure how one could ever figure out what to believe, and separate fact, from allegorical, to fiction. But if it works for you, enjoy!

DK

chapka

The Catholic Church "wrote the book" in a very literal sense. Often Fundamentalists attack Catholics for depending on Church tradition rather than the Bible alone. But the Bible itself is a Catholic tradition; they compiled it and arranged it. Not only that, but there's Catholic tradition in every protestant bible: the names of the gospels, which aren't found in any manuscript but were added by Church scholars based on traditional attribution. So there's at least four words of "Catholic tradition" in every fundamentalist's Bible: "Matthew," "Mark," "Luke," and "John".

Adora

Ahh yes, but Fat Henry died believing he was a good Catholic, simply of the *English* sect of the Church. It wasn't until Lizzie that the spilt was really defined properly.

I think we're also getting a lot of mythical John's mixed up with possible reality-Johns...

Anyway, yes, Catholicism was kinda the root that started the whole twisted bush of Christianity. Of course, what makes me laugh hilariously is Fundies who denounce Catholicism, and yet (as I have pointed out to so many of them) are making the same mistakes, the same misinterpretations and the same claims as Catholicism did so long ago, just the Church had so much more money and manpower behind it. In this sense, the Catholic Church has written the book on it in a way, since thanks to it's sheer power during the most influential years, it's left it's own stampmarks on the sheets of interpretation that most of the "breakaways" are pretty much following to a Tee now. Whether they will ever wake up to themselves and realise this is another matter...

funinspace

That's a very large and sweeping statement there. I would agree that by the end of the 4th century, a very real Roman Catholic Church, was in the drivers seat for the final uniformity, at least in the west. But they certainly wrote nothing, they collected an official definition. Many groups/leaders help drive towards a set of acceptable books. I can think of Irenaeus (of Ephesus I think) of the east, who is one of the first we have a listing from of most of the inspired books. He was hardly part of the "Catholics", who should be called the "Roman Catholics" for clarity. But you are quite correct in that the Protestants owe Roman Catholicism allot more respect for their own traditions than they give. I myself have never figured out how the fundies, who want to use only the Bible, but don't use the oldest most accepted version from history. Yes, the one that includes the Apocrypha. How does one square 1200 years (400-1500AD) of misdirected inspiration with their views. Guess it's kind of like that flood that the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Chinesse never noticed.

DK

Amos

Yes it is but not much different from Jesus walking away from his tomb. How about the Wedding Cana being the flip side of the Temptation in the Desert because it is reported from two different perspectives? That is, same event but the pleasure of one is at the cost of the other.

Amos

Before the Protestants 'owe' anything they must first 'have' something and the Catholic position here is that what Protestants have the Catholics do not want or they would have had it long before Protestants wanted it.

nermal

Well, you gotta admit, them Catholics do like their idolatry and polytheism.

Ed

Amos

Except one and that is the ideal (idol) to be counted among the righteous.