proudliberal

Can anyone show me irrufutable proof that jesus saved anyone anywhere,I am not talking about "A BELIEF" I am talking about irrefutable evidence that jesus saved anyone anywhere from anything.

Toto

This is not the sort of question this forum deals with. Let's try this in GRD.

fatpie42

It's not the sort of question anyone deals with. It's the sort of question which is answered with 'faith' which isn't really much of an answer for the true sceptic.

Mizled

I met Jesus at a gas station once. He told me to keep on truckin.

ELECTROGOD

Sure, it's in the Byble which is "irrufutable evidence" just like Greek stories are "irrufutable evidence" of centaurs...well that and my saying that centaurs are real just like Christians say that Jesus saved them.

gracebkr

Do you dispute the hieroglyphics inside pyramids? Is it not considered evidence of history as the people who made them saw it? The Bible is a history text. Whether you believe it or not is up to you. To claim the whole thing in it's entirety has to be false, is to deny the only historical text that explains what was going on in that time, which in my opinion as a history buff, not intelligent. Many people contributed what they saw at the time. According to you they were all lying, those who wrote of Jesus' miracles. To have that many liars, risking their lives for their lies, to never back out of their lie and to die for it. To me that seems not probable. People are willing to die for the truth, most people will not die for a lie. I am not talking about what I think, I am speaking on a psychological point of view.

ziffel

Hi, welcome to IIDB.

Don't know where to start with all the cliches, but I'll try. Are you seriously asserting that the bible is the "only historical text that explains what was going on at the time"?? First of all, "the bible" is a collection of writings, assembled by Romans some 300 or so years after the events described.

The actual accounts that you claim the men "saw" were written 40 to 90 years after the events described. No new testament author saw anything described in the pages.

The books were written "between 45 AD and before c. 140 AD. Its books were gradually collected into a single volume over a period of several centuries" (wikipedia)

Don't be so naive to believe that because something is written down and believed by a lot of people, that it is true. The Qu'ran (Koran) contains what Muslims believe are historical texts as well, and is believed by over a billion followers.

Muslims do it every day. Many religions have featured believers who were willing to die for what you would consider false beliefs, or lies.

Major factions of Christianity can't even agree on which books should be included, meaning they can't agree on which books were inspired by God. The bible didn't fall out of the sky after God bellowed "ok, here it is, my word!" - rather it was written by men, and assembled by men, same as every other religious book that claims to be the word of a god.

Incidentally, those hieroglyphics you cited as an example of historical texts, claimed multiple gods existed, including Ra, Osiris, Dionysis, etc.

Valdemar

You do understand that the Gospels were not written by those who were actually at Jesus' side? In some cases, the books were written up to 200 years after the event.

Many people do risk their lives for lies, and others don't know that it's a lie and are simply deluded. Here's an example:

David Koresh (from the rapture ready web-site, no less!)

OneInFundieville

The Periocope Adulterae may be as good as it gets.

Valdemar

It sort of reminds me of the slogan I've seen a few times: "Prayer Changes Things." THAT I'd like to see evidence of.