Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 11-15-2005, 08:55 AM

I look forward to reading readers' replies to my topic question.

Julian · 11-15-2005, 08:58 AM

A miracle would require miraculous evidence. A non-miracle wouldn't.

Julian

Johnny Skeptic · 11-15-2005, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

A miracle would require miraculous evidence. A non-miracle wouldn't.

Let me put it this way: I need examples of say ten tangible miracles and ten tangible non-miracles as understood by Christians.

Julian · 11-15-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

A miracle would require miraculous evidence. A non-miracle wouldn't.

Let me put it this way: I need examples of say ten tangible miracles and ten tangible non-miracles as understood by Christians.

Sure, but my post shows that you can never have ten (or even one) tangible miracles, for the simple reason that the evidence of a tangible miracle would itself have to be miraculous. I doubt that anyone is ready to come up with a bonafide miracle and then provide miraculous evidence.

But, then again, maybe the second coming will take place right here on II.

Julian

Toto · 11-15-2005, 10:57 AM

Please relate this to Biblical Criticism or History. Are you asking if the miracles in the Bible are in fact miracles (or would be if they happened as described?)

Otherwise this will be moved to an appropriate forum

vsop44 · 11-15-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

I look forward to reading readers' replies to my topic question.

If after a devastating natural catastrophe I see a guy arriving with 5 loaves of bread and a couple of fishes feeding thousands of people that will be a miracle ! :notworthy

But if I read in a book called the bible that a guy fed thousands of people , with 5 loaves and 2 fishes , who came to hear him make a speech , surely most of them brought a picnic ! That is a non miracle :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Johnny Skeptic · 11-16-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Please relate this to Biblical Criticism or History. Are you asking if the miracles in the Bible are in fact miracles (or would be if they happened as described?)

Otherwise this will be moved to an appropriate forum

Toto, please move this thread to the GRD forum because I would like for Christians to give me some examples of miracles and non-miracles in today's world. I will start a new thread at this forum regarding the supposed miracles that were performed by Jesus.

general_koffi · 11-16-2005, 04:13 AM

[sarcasm]If it's in the Bible and it wouldn't normally be possible, then it's a miracle.[/sarcasm]

Also, any random church leader can allege that something is a miracle and his followers will believe him.

Jakanapes · 11-16-2005, 06:16 AM

Simple, if it simply can't happen but it does, it would be a miracle.

If it is at all possible and it happens, then it's merely unlikely, not a miracle.

By the very definition, though, a miracle can't happen, so why bother discussing it?

NZSkep · 11-16-2005, 01:19 PM

unless you subscribe to the pulp fiction definition of miracle:

Jules:
Don't you see, Vince, that shit
don't matter. You're judging this
thing the wrong way. It's not
about what. It could be God
stopped the bullets, he changed
Coke into Pepsi, he found my
fuckin' car keys. You don't judge
shit like this based on merit.
Whether or not what we experienced
as an according-to-Hoyle miracle
is insignificant. What is
significant is I felt God's touch,
God got involved.

11-15-2005, 08:55 AM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	How can we distinguish miracles from non-miracles? I look forward to reading readers' replies to my topic question.

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11-15-2005, 08:58 AM	#2
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	A miracle would require miraculous evidence. A non-miracle wouldn't. Julian

11-15-2005, 10:57 AM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Please relate this to Biblical Criticism or History. Are you asking if the miracles in the Bible are in fact miracles (or would be if they happened as described?) Otherwise this will be moved to an appropriate forum

11-16-2005, 04:13 AM	#8
general_koffi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 10,887	[sarcasm]If it's in the Bible and it wouldn't normally be possible, then it's a miracle.[/sarcasm] Also, any random church leader can allege that something is a miracle and his followers will believe him.

11-16-2005, 06:16 AM	#9
Jakanapes Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 810	Simple, if it simply can't happen but it does, it would be a miracle. If it is at all possible and it happens, then it's merely unlikely, not a miracle. By the very definition, though, a miracle can't happen, so why bother discussing it?

11-16-2005, 01:19 PM	#10
NZSkep Contributor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: auckland nz Posts: 18,090	unless you subscribe to the pulp fiction definition of miracle: Jules: Don't you see, Vince, that shit don't matter. You're judging this thing the wrong way. It's not about what. It could be God stopped the bullets, he changed Coke into Pepsi, he found my fuckin' car keys. You don't judge shit like this based on merit. Whether or not what we experienced as an according-to-Hoyle miracle is insignificant. What is significant is I felt God's touch, God got involved.

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