manwithdream

What do people mean by types compared to prophecies? Is a type supposed to be a prophecy and can an actual prophecy be fulfilled by a type?

Kenneth Greifer

Toto

Can you give an example of this usage?

Zwaarddijk

Types are an insidious thing, really - it's a way for Christians to rid themselves of reading comprehension. It is essentially a way of saying that "any phrase in the OT that in isolation can be read as though something about Jesus or Christianity is a fulfillment of it, is a fulfillment we can boast about".

It also has weird implications. If the "types" really are what Christians wish them to be, this implies God does not even try to communicate in order to help people understand him, but rather hides his message as deep he can. The same way typology can be used to prop up the Gospels, it can be used to support Islam or any flavor of Judaism, Christianity or even other religions.

It also leads to a way of thinking about how to read texts that makes it ok to read "I didn't do it" as an admission of guilt - just look at it, "I didn't do it" contains "I did do it", hence there's an admission there!!

I suspect the idea of typology have ruined many Christians' understanding of what "context" even means - ever run into Christians' saying you have to "read it in context", and then doing the exact opposite to the text? I am strongly inclined to believe this type-bullshit is one of the sources of that. They genuinely think context means "Christ".

DCHindley

It is a Greek techical term used in biblical criticism. The word TUPOS, "typos," represents the English term "prefiguration" in early Christian Fathers like Barnabas and Ignatius, meaning "figure," "pattern," (alternately "example" or " instruct") Since serving as a type or pattern that someone in the future should mimic to their profit, is not quite the same as making a prophecy (a prediction about the future) that some future individual might think is fulfilled in his own day.

I'd say that prophesy consists of plain words used to make a short term prediction (directed to a king or the congregation of Judeans, whatever). It is later that someone might interpret to posess a secondary meaning relevant to the times of the interpreter.

Epistle of Barnabas 6:11 Ἐπεὶ οὖν ἀνακαινίσας ἡμᾶς ἐν τῇ ἀφέσει τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἐποίησεν ἡμᾶς ἄλλον τύπον ὡς παιδίον ἔχειν τὴν ψυχήν ὡς ἂν δὴ ἀναπλάσσοντος αὐτοῦ ἡμᾶς	Brn 6:11 Since, therefore, having renewed us by the remission of our sins, He hath made us after another pattern, it is His purpose that we should possess the soul of children, inasmuch as He has created us anew by His Spirit.
Epistle of Barnabas 7:3 Ἀλλὰ καὶ σταυρωθεὶς ἐποτίζετο ὄξει καὶ χολῇ Ἀκούσατε πῶς περὶ τούτου πεφανέρωκαν οἱ ἱερεῖς τοῦ ναοῦ γεγραμμένης ἐντολῆς Ὃς ἂν μὴ νηστεύσῃ τὴν νηστείαν θανάτῳ ἐξολεθρευθήσεται Ἐνετείλατο κύριος ἐπεὶ καὶ αὐτὸς ὑπὲρ τῶν ἡμετέρων ἁμαρτιῶν ἔμελλεν τὸ σκεῦος τοῦ πνεύματος προσφέρειν θυσίαν ἵνα καὶ ὁ τύπος ὁ γενόμενος ἐπὶ Ἰσαὰκ τοῦ προσενεχθέντος ἐπὶ τὸ θυσιαστήριον τελεσθῇ	Brn 7:3 Moreover, when fixed to the cross, He had given Him to drink vinegar and gall. Hearken how the priests of the people gave previous indications of this. His commandment having been written, the Lord enjoined, that whosoever did not keep the fast should be put to death, because He also Himself was to offer in sacrifice for our sins the vessel of the Spirit, in order that the type established in Isaac when he was offered upon the altar might be fully accomplished.
Epistle of Barnabas 7:7 Προσέχετε πῶς ὁ τύπος τοῦ Ἰησοῦ φανεροῦται	Brn 7:7 Mark how the type of Jesus now comes out.
Epistle of Barnabas 7:10 Πῶς γὰρ ὅμοιος ἐκείνῳ εἰς τοῦτο ὁμοίους τοὺς τράγους καὶ καλούς ἴσους ἵνα ὅταν ἴδωσιν αὐτὸν τότε ἐρχόμενον ἐκπλαγῶσιν ἐπὶ τῇ ὁμοιότητι τοῦ τράγου Οὐκοῦν ἴδε τὸν τύπον τοῦ μέλλοντος πάσχειν Ἰησοῦ	Brn 7:10 For how like is He to Him! With a view to this, He required the goats to be of goodly aspect, and similar, that, when they see Him then coming, they may be amazed by the likeness of the goat. Behold, then, the type of Jesus who was to suffer.
Epistle of Barnabas 7:11 Τί δέ ὅτι τὸ ἔριον εἰς μέσον τῶν ἀκανθῶν τιθέασιν τύπος ἐστὶν τοῦ Ἰησοῦ τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ κείμενος ὅτι ὃς ἐὰν θέλῃ τὸ ἔριον ἆραι τὸ κόκκινον δεῖ αὐτὸν πολλὰ παθεῖν διὰ τὸ εἶναι φοβερὰν τὴν ἄκανθαν καὶ θλιβέντα κυριεῦσαι αὐτοῦ Οὕτως φησίν οἱ θέλοντές με ἰδεῖν καὶ ἅψασθαί μου τῆς βασιλείας ὀφείλουσιν θλιβέντες καὶ παθόντες λαβεῖν με	Brn 7:11 But why is it that they place the wool in the midst of thorns? It is a type of Jesus set before the view of the Church. They place the wool among thorns, that anyone who wishes to bear it away may find it necessary to suffer much, because the thorn is formidable, and thus obtain it only as the result of suffering. Thus also, says He, "Those who wish to behold Me, and lay hold of My kingdom, must through tribulation and suffering obtain Me."
Epistle of Barnabas 8:1 Τίνα δὲ δοκεῖτε τύπον εἶναι ὅτι ἐντέταλται τῷ Ἰσραὴλ προσφέρειν δάμαλιν τοὺς ἄνδρας ἐν οἷς εἰσὶν ἁμαρτίαι τέλειαι καὶ σφάξαντας κατακαίειν καὶ αἴρειν τότε τὴν σποδὸν παιδία καὶ βάλλειν εἰς ἄγγη καὶ περιτιθέναι τὸ ἔριον τὸ κόκκινον ἐπὶ ξύλου ἴδε πάλιν ὁ τύπος τοῦ σταυροῦ καὶ τὸ ἔριον τὸ κόκκινον καὶ τὸ ὕσσωπον καὶ οὕτως ῥαντίζειν τὰ παιδία καθ᾽ ἕνα τὸν λαόν ἵνα ἁγνίζωνται ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν	Brn 8:1 Now what do you suppose this to be a type of, that a command was given to Israel, that men of the greatest wickedness should offer a heifer, and slay and burn it, and, that then boys should take the ashes, and put these into vessels, and bind round a stick purple wool along with hyssop, and that thus the boys should sprinkle the people, one by one, in order that they might be purified from their sins?
Epistle of Barnabas 12:2 Λέγει δὲ πάλιν τῷ Μωϋσῇ πολεμουμένου τοῦ Ἰσραὴλ ὑπὸ τῶν ἀλλοφύλων καὶ ἵνα ὑπομνήσῃ αὐτοὺς πολεμουμένους ὅτι διὰ τὰς ἁμαρτίας αὐτῶν παρεδόθησαν εἰς θάνατον λέγει εἰς τὴν καρδίαν Μωϋσέως τὸ πνεῦμα ἵνα ποιήσῃ τύπον σταυροῦ καὶ τοῦ μέλλοντος πάσχειν ὅτι ἐὰν μή φησίν ἐλπίσωσιν ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα πολεμηθήσονται Τίθησιν οὖν Μωϋσῆς ἓν ἐφ᾽ ἓν ὅπλον ἐν μέσῳ τῆς πυγμῆς καὶ σταθεὶς ὑψηλότερος πάντων ἐξέτεινεν τὰς χεῖρας καὶ οὕτως πάλιν ἐνίκα ὁ Ἰσραήλ Εἶτα ὁπόταν καθεῖλεν πάλιν ἐθανατοῦντο	Brn 12:2 Yet again He speaks of this in Moses, when Israel was attacked by strangers. And that He might remind them, when assailed, that it was on account of their sins they were delivered to death, the Spirit speaks to the heart of Moses, that he should make a figure of the cross, and of Him about to suffer thereon; for unless they put their trust in Him, they shall be overcome forever. Moses therefore placed one weapon above another in the midst of the hill, and standing upon it, so as to be higher than all the people, he stretched forth his hands, and thus again Israel acquired the mastery. But when again he let down his hands, the were again destroyed.
Epistle of Barnabas 12:5 Πάλιν Μωϋσῆς ποιεῖ τύπον τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ὅτι δεῖ αὐτὸν παθεῖν καὶ αὐτὸς ζωοποιήσει ὃν δόξουσιν ἀπολωλεκέναι ἐν σημείῳ πίπτοντος τοῦ Ἰσραήλ Ἐποίησεν γὰρ κύριος πάντα ὄφιν δάκνειν αὐτούς καὶ ἀπέθνησκον ἐπειδὴ ἡ παράβασις διὰ τοῦ ὄφεως ἐν Εὔᾳ ἐγένετο ἵνα ἐλέγξῃ αὐτούς ὅτι διὰ τὴν παράβασιν αὐτῶν εἰς θλῖψιν θανάτου παραδοθήσονται	Brn 12:5 And again Moses makes a type of Jesus, signifying that it was necessary for Him to suffer, and also that He would be the author of life to others, whom they believed to have destroyed on the cross when Israel was failing. For since transgression was committed by Eve through means of the serpent, the Lord brought it to pass that every kind of serpents bit them, and they died, that He might convince them, that on account of their transgression they were given over to the straits of death.
Epistle of Barnabas 12:6 Πέρας γέ τοι αὐτὸς Μωϋσῆς ἐντειλάμενος Οὐκ ἔσται ὑμῖν οὔτε χωνευτὸν οὔτε γλυπτὸν εἰς θεὸν ὑμῖν αὐτὸς ποιεῖ ἵνα τύπον τοῦ Ἰησοῦ δείξῃ Ποιεῖ οὖν Μωϋσῆς χαλκοῦν ὄφιν καὶ τίθησιν ἐνδόξως καὶ κηρύγματι καλεῖ τὸν λαόν	Brn 12:6 Moreover Moses, when he commanded, "Ye shall not have any graven or molten image for your God," did so that he might reveal a type of Jesus. Moses then makes a brazen serpent, and places it upon a beam, and by proclamation assembles the people.
Epistle of Barnabas 13:5 Καὶ προσήγαγεν Ἐφραὶμ καὶ Μανασσῆ τὸν Μανασσῆ θέλων ἵνα εὐλογηθῇ ὅτι πρεσβύτερος ἦν ὁ γὰρ Ἰωσὴφ προσήγαγεν εἰς τὴν δεξιὰν χεῖρα τοῦ πατρὸς Ἰακώβ Εἶδεν δὲ Ἰακὼβ τύπον τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ λαοῦ τοῦ μεταξύ Καὶ τί λέγει Καὶ ἐποίησεν Ἰακὼβ ἐναλλὰξ τὰς χεῖρας αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐπέθηκεν τὴν δεξιὰν ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν Ἐφραίμ τοῦ δευτέρου καὶ νεωτέρου καὶ εὐλόγησεν αὐτόν Καὶ εἶπεν Ἰωσὴφ πρὸς Ἰακώβ Μετάθες σου τὴν δεξιὰν ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν Μανασσῆ ὅτι πρωτότοκός μου υἱός ἐστιν Καὶ εἶπεν Ἰακὼβ πρὸς Ἰωσήφ Οἶδα τέκνον οἶδα ἀλλ᾽ ὁ μείζων δουλεύσει τῷ ἐλάσσονι καὶ οὗτος δὲ εὐλογηθήσεται	Brn 13:5 And he brought Manasseh and Ephraim, desiring that Manasseh should be blessed, because he was the elder. With this view Joseph led him to the right hand of his father Jacob. But Jacob saw in spirit the type of the people to arise afterwards. And what says the Scripture? And Jacob changed the direction of his hands, and laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, the second and younger, and blessed him. And Joseph said to Jacob, "Transfer thy right hand to the head of Manasseh, for he is my first-born son." And Jacob said, "I know it, my son, I know it; but the elder shall serve the younger: yet he also shall be blessed."

It is even found in this sense in Romans and Hebrews.

BGT Romans 5:14 ἀλλὰ ἐβασίλευσεν ὁ θάνατος ἀπὸ Ἀδὰμ μέχρι Μωϋσέως καὶ ἐπὶ τοὺς μὴ ἁμαρτήσαντας ἐπὶ τῷ ὁμοιώματι τῆς παραβάσεως Ἀδὰμ ὅς ἐστιν τύπος τοῦ μέλλοντος.	(RSV Rom 5:14) Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
BGT Hebrews 8:5 οἵτινες ὑποδείγματι καὶ σκιᾷ λατρεύουσιν τῶν ἐπουρανίων, καθὼς κεχρημάτισται Μωϋσῆς μέλλων ἐπιτελεῖν τὴν σκηνήν· ὅρα γάρ φησιν, ποιήσεις πάντα κατὰ τὸν τύπον τὸν δειχθέντα σοι ἐν τῷ ὄρει·	(RSV Heb 8:5) They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary; for when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, "See that you make everything according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain."

DCH

manwithdream

I read an article that said that Isaiah 7:14 was a prophecy, but the writer said it was a type also. He didn't explain what he meant by that. I guess he was saying it was about someone in Ahaz' time, but also about someone at a later time also.

Juststeve

Actually Isaiah 7:14 is a prophesy. It is a conditional one having nothing to do with Jesus. Isaiah is telling King Ahaz what will happen if Ahaz turns from his evil ways and returns to God. Ahaz doesn't and is vanquished.

All one needs to do to know that it has nothing to do with Jesus is read it in full context.

Steve

Iskander

The woman is already pregnant.
NABRE

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

How is Isa 7:14 a prophecy?

Zwaarddijk

A verse by itself seldom is a prophecy - the wider context, though, is. It says the enemies of king Ahaz will be vanquished before that boy hits his teenage years. Which of course is a bit of a worthless prophecy, since Isaiah first promised a sign that would inform Ahaz that the enemies will be vanquished (so he could be certain of it ahead of time) - now the sign will be the vanquishing happening within 13 years or so, and no magical sign in advance ensuring the king that this will happen - a very useless sign indeed.

Sheshbazzar

Um...it seems to be a prediction of at least two things. The as yet unborn child will be male.
And that the child will be named Immanuel.
Neither which has evidently yet happened when the statement is made.

But it doesn't say anything about Jezuz.

Iskander

Types are creative interpretations of the Bible. A type is not a prophecy.

Can an actual prophecy be fulfilled by a type? Yes. It depends on the rules governing admissible evidence and all that.