JoeWallack

Ieousiscity. The Argument For HJ. A Skeptical Reconstruction (From the Notes of Drs. France & Stein).

JW:
My own efforts on these Holy Boards to obtain a summary of the argument for HJ from those who think the argument for MJ should not be taken seriously, has been a complete failure. As near as I can tell than, this mysterious argument for HJ is currently Mythical. This all reminds me too much of the classic Adam Family episode where they decide to give Cousin It a haircut, and when they finish there is nothing left.

I'm thinking that with the help of fellow Skeptics here, including the resurrected Jeffrey Gibson (I myself never believed in any Type of resurrection until I saw John Travolta in Pulp Fiction) we could perhaps flesh out our own argument for HJ so that MJs would actually have something Tangible to argue against.

Just to get things started, off the top of my head, here is some of the best evidence or at least commonly cited evidence for HJ:

1) Paul

2) "Mark"

3) Non-Christian references

4) Commercial success of Christianity

5) Assumption by Authority

6) Lack of evidence for early belief in MJ.

Anyone else got any good ones?



Joseph

Jesus. Name. The fleshy part of the trinity.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

mountainman

Hey Joe,

How about ....

7) Constantine's military victory and liberation of christians
held captive in Rome by the pagan "Pontifex Maximus"?
Why did Constantine win? Because of the HJ?

Items 1 to 6 rely on this 7th having taken place.
If 7) never occurred this thread would have a different
subject heading.


Best wishes,



Pete Brown

andrewcriddle

Most people would include Q

Andrew Criddle

Minimalist

Tachyons are theorized to exist, as well.....but, like Q, no one has ever seen them.

aa5874

Even the Jesus of the NT claimed he was not mortal but born of the Spirit. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
"God is a spirit, ......."

The HJers believe God's son is not a spirit, just a man without any known extant history, the synonym for myth.

JoeWallack

JW:
Yea, good one Andrew. I suppose "John" could also be included. Also, early Patristic references such as Papias. The list now could be:

1) Q

2) Paul

3) "Mark"

4) Non-Christian references

5) Early Patristic references

6) Commercial success of Christianity

7) Assumption by Authority

8) Lack of evidence for early belief in MJ.

9) "John"

The next step is evaluating the Quality of the above evidence.


Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

Chili

Jesus. Name. That which the ego pretends to be and can be called anything but "man" in the same way as a rose is a rose is a rose but only that which called a rose is a rose, wherefore Jesus was never called man even once . . . until he was crucified and then no longer was Jesus the imposter.

So no, Jesus is not the fleshy part of the trinity which is only an inspired human concept for as long as humans are not man.

Zeichman

One might add other lost sources to the gospel tradition, whether oral or written ("M" and "L", etc.)

Loomis

What about the Antichrists?

Didn’t they exist?

Didn’t they believe in MJ?

Aren’t they evidence?

2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. This person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

The author of 2 John said that some people exist (he called them "antichrists") who do not believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

1 John 2:18-19 says antichrists are Christians.

1 John 2:18-19
Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us , because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from us to demonstrate that all of them do not belong to us.

Chili

These are those who denied the Transubstantiation and parted company the first time in Jn.6:66 . . . and 'demonstrate' is what they do but really do not know 'what' they are doing but are happy just know 'that' they do. Those of us they left are the ones who bear the stigmata from Jn.20:21.

This would confirm that Matthew's Jesus is the antichrist.