TedM

I would be interested to see a summary of all the writings (Christian or non-Christian), or references to writings traditionally dated within the first 2 centuries which fall into the following categories:

1. personal claims to have known or seen Jesus
2. claims to have known a person who knew or saw Jesus
3. claims to have known a person who knew a person who knew or saw Jesus
4. claims regarding relatives of Jesus (other than the gospels)

I'd like to know how many of these exist, how many have been clearly shown to be fabrications, and how many have not been clearly shown to be fabrications.

I'm aware of references in the NT, Irenaeus, Hegissipus, Quadrattus. Are there others with Polycarp, Tertuillian, gnostic writings, etc..?

Does anyone here know of such a summary already existing?

Toto

I've never seen such a summary. I think the evidence is too ambiguous to make for a neat chart.

I have never seen any first person accounts of the form "I met Jesus today . . . " - except possibly the gnostic gospels, which are not generally considered to be credible.

There are third person accounts of others seeing Jesus - but what value do they have?

outhouse

nope


as toto astated, there is nothing with credibility.



we have the gospels and epistles to work with and josephas

TedM

I'd like to just see what they all are--wondering if I'm missing any. The ambiguous accounts should stay. Re 1st person accounts, we have the ref in 2 Peter about the transfiguration, the 1 John 'we have seen and touched', the refs in John to the beloved disciple 'This is the disciple'. I would be interested in the references in the gnostic gospels as well as the third person accounts. I realize they may have no value. Still, curious.

Toto

If you regard the obviously forged, second hand. supernatural reference to the mythic event referred to as the Transfiguration as first person - - the exercise becomes pointless.

aa5874

Please, Identify any "gnostic" gospel that has ever been recovered and dated by Paleography or C 14 to the time of the reign of Tiberius or up to 37 CE.

Let us NOT waste any more time.

The authors of the NT Canon did NOT ever claim that they saw a human Jesus.

Remarkably, a supposed contemporary of King Aretas, a writer called Paul, never wrote about any meeting with Jesus, or that he personally Persecuted Jesus.

The Pauline writer BOASTED that he personally saw a resurrected character called Jesus and that when he was called to preach the resurrected Jesus was REVEALED to him by God.

There are 27 books in the NT Canon and not one author claimed they personally met a human Jesus.

aa5874

Please, the Church and its agent has declared that 2nd Peter does NOT belong in the Canon. 2nd Peter is admitted even by the Church to be a forgery.

Church History 3.3.1

TedM

Forged or not. I want them all.

TedM

The Church has kept it in the canon. I'm not going to debate the authenticity of 2 Peter here. Even the skeptics can't agree on when it was written though, with a wide range from 80-150AD.

Iskander

It is impossible to find any historical evidence for the existence of the man known to us as Jesus, because of the decision made by the early church to turn him into a god, son of god, son of virginal mother etc.

The rewriting of the story, the silencing of anything which might present that man as having parents, brothers, sisters, wife, friend etc makes this task impossible.