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Old 08-24-2010, 04:45 PM   #1
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Default The Historical Accuracy of Acts of the Apostles

One argument that has been advanced to me by Christian Philosopher Victor Reppert is that the astounding historical accuracy in Acts is only possible by Luke having actually been a traveling companion of Paul's. He asserts that it is wildly implausible that an author could have learned this information by any other means other than first-hand experience, ruling out a second century date for Acts. He says:

According to Norman Geisler (admittedly a biblical apologist), "In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine islands without error."{8}

Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker Books, 1999), 47.




Dr. Reppert concludes his argument with this:

In short, I think the character of Luke's work gives us very strong inductive evidence that Luke was "on board" with Paul. It also provides significant evidence in support of Luke's claims concerning the miraculous. Whether you think this evidence is sufficient depends on the prior probabilities you bring to the discussion.

My question is this: is it possible that a second century author could have access to written sources that gave detailed information on the geographical names and the correct titles of officials living fifty years prior? He feels that the argument that Luke used Josephus is weak.

P.S. Link to the original discussion on Victor's blog Dangerous Idea

I post there under the name Walter.
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Old 08-24-2010, 06:04 PM   #2
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The Roman Empire contained quite a lot of well studied people. it had universities and libraries. Such a large empire also surely needed maps. Some people did travel around quite a lot.

I see nothing strange about a person in this Roman Empire having access to such information. It is a tautological proof that the person writing this book was literate.

On another note: Is it possible that some locations were named later influenced by acts, not the other way around? Am I being too cynical?

I can't really proof either way but acts does feel more historical than the gospels. there is less hocus pocus and more just people travelling around preaching. Still I wouldn't call it a reliable source of anything, there have been too many powers with too much at stake screwing around with scripture. Anything in it is suspect.
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Old 08-24-2010, 06:16 PM   #3
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My question is this: is it possible that a second century author could have access to written sources that gave detailed information on the geographical names and the correct titles of officials living fifty years prior?
Yes indeed. The only reason we think that the information is accurate is that we have access to the same sources that this second century author used.

Quote:
He feels that the argument that Luke used Josephus is weak.
This is called "hand waving." The argument is actually quite strong. See Luke and Josephus.

I recommend Ricard Pervo, The Mystery of Acts (or via: amazon.co.uk) for a readable discussion of the subject.
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Old 08-24-2010, 06:19 PM   #4
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It must be true, therefore it is.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
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My question is this: is it possible that a second century author could have access to written sources that gave detailed information on the geographical names and the correct titles of officials living fifty years prior?
Yes indeed. The only reason we think that the information is accurate is that we have access to the same sources that this second century author used.
Reppert's argument is that we have rediscovered the proper titles of these first century officials through archaeology, and that an author writing around 110 CE or later could not possibly have gotten all these titles right since that information would have been almost impossible to obtain unless the author actually traveled with Paul.

Reppert and his bulldog Timothy McGrew are using J.P. Holding's article on Josephus as a refutation of Pervo's evidence that Luke used Josephus.

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I recommend Ricard Pervo, The Mystery of Acts (via: amazon.co.uk) for a readable discussion of the subject.
I have it on order.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:06 PM   #6
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Reppert's argument is that we have rediscovered the proper titles of these first century officials through archaeology, and that an author writing around 110 CE or later could not possibly have gotten all these titles right since that information would have been almost impossible to obtain unless the author actually traveled with Paul.....
How could it be impossible? Does he think those monuments disappeared shortly after Paul's trip, only to be discovered in the 19th or 20th century?
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:57 PM   #7
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Hi Deus Ex,

Here are the names of 32 countries
Aghanistan Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana,Brazil Brunei Darussalam Bulgaria Burkina Faso Burma (Myanmar) Burundi, Cambodia Cameroon Cape Verde

Here are 54 cities: Hong Kong, New York City, Chicago,Singapore, São Paulo
Seoul, Shanghai, Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Guangzhou, Moscow,Toronto,
Chongqing, Shenzhen, Beijing, Kuala Lumpur, Rio de Janeiro, Osaka, Jakarta,
Buenos Aires, Recife, Macao, Miami, Mumbai, Sydney, Wuhan, Melbourne, Istanbul, Houston, Honolulu, Vancouver, Panama City, Mexico City, Gold Coast City, London, Curitiba, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Caracas, Makati,Tianjin, San Francisco, Dallas, Busan, Paris, Las Vegas, Philadelphia, Xiamen, Kyiv, Santiago, Nanjing, Seattle, Dalian

Here are nine islands: Mykonos, Tonga, Cyrus, Cuba, Jamaica, Pitt Island, Nassau, Flint Island, and Bumuda

Isn't it amazing that I got all of them right. Does this not prove that I have been to all of them?

There should be a name for this type of apologist strategy of making rather simple tasks appear to be so fantastic that they provide some kind of proof for some thing. There has to be a better name than "exaggerating the difficulty and uniqueness of things".

We should consider that private libraries had thousands of manuscripts, The one found in the small town of Herculaneum has at least 1800 manuscripts that have survived. It is no trouble imagining that a typical library would contain good geographical descriptions and provide names of famous officials from the previous century.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay




Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Ex View Post
One argument that has been advanced to me by Christian Philosopher Victor Reppert is that the astounding historical accuracy in Acts is only possible by Luke having actually been a traveling companion of Paul's. He asserts that it is wildly implausible that an author could have learned this information by any other means other than first-hand experience, ruling out a second century date for Acts. He says:

According to Norman Geisler (admittedly a biblical apologist), "In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine islands without error."{8}

Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker Books, 1999), 47.




Dr. Reppert concludes his argument with this:

In short, I think the character of Luke's work gives us very strong inductive evidence that Luke was "on board" with Paul. It also provides significant evidence in support of Luke's claims concerning the miraculous. Whether you think this evidence is sufficient depends on the prior probabilities you bring to the discussion.

My question is this: is it possible that a second century author could have access to written sources that gave detailed information on the geographical names and the correct titles of officials living fifty years prior? He feels that the argument that Luke used Josephus is weak.

P.S. Link to the original discussion on Victor's blog Dangerous Idea

I post there under the name Walter.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:27 AM   #8
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Timothy Mcgrew's response:

Quote:
The suggestion that "Luke looked it all up in a library" becomes incredible in proportion to the number and nature of the details involved. Here are some samples none of which can be derived from Josephus:

1. A natural crossing between correctly named ports. (Acts 13:4-5) Mt. Casius, which is south of Seleucia, is within sight of Cyprus.

2. The proper port (Perga) along the direct destination of a ship crossing from Cyprus (13:13)

3. The proper location of Iconium in Phrygia rather than in Lycaonia. (14:6) This identification was doubted because it challenges some sources reflecting boundary changes from a different date, but the ethnic inclusion of Iconium in Phrygia is confirmed by the geographical distribution of Neo-Phrygian texts and onomastic study.

4. The highly unusual but correct heteroclitic declension of the name Lystra. (14:6) This is paralleled in Latin documents.

5. The Lycaonian language spoken in Lystra. (14:11) This was unusual in the cosmopolitan, Hellenized society in which Paul moved. But the preservation of the local language is attested by a gloss in Stephanus of Byzantium, who explains that “Derbe” is a local word for “juniper.” Hemer lists many other native names in the Lystra district.

6. Two gods known to be so associated—Zeus and Hermes. (14:12) These are paralleled epigraphically from Lystra itself, and the grouping of the names of Greek divinities is peculiarly characteristic of the Lystra district.

7. The proper port, Attalia, which returning travelers would use. (14:25) This was a coasting port, where they would go to intercept a coasting vessel, by contrast with Perga (13:13), a river port.

8. The correct order of approach (Derbe and then Lystra) from the Cilician Gates. (16:1; cf. 15:41)

9. The form of the name “Troas,” which was current in the first century. (16:8)

10. The place of a conspicuous sailors’ landmark, Samothrace, dominated by a 5000 foot mountain. (16:11)

11. The proper description of Philippi as a Roman colony, and the correct identification of its seaport as Nea Polis, which is attested both in manuscripts and in numismatic evidence. (16:12)

12. The right location of the Gangites, a small river near Philippi. (16:13)

13. The identification of Thyatira as a center of dyeing. (16:14) This is attested by at least seven inscriptions of the city.

14. The proper designation for the magistrates of the colony as strategoi (16:22), following the general term archontes in v. 19.

15. The proper locations (Amphipolis and Apollonia, cities about 30 miles apart) where travelers would spend successive nights on this journey to Thessalonica. (17:1)

16. The presence of a synagogue in Thessalonica. (17:1) This is attested by a late 2nd AD inscription. (CIJ 693)

17. The proper term (“politarchs”) used of the magistrates in Thessalonica. (17:6) See Horsley’s article in the Anchor Bible Dictionary, in loc.

18. The correct implication that sea travel is the most convenient way of reaching Athens, with the favoring “Etesian” winds of the summer sailing season. (17:14-15)


Quote:
If you cannot see such evidence in the accuracy of numerous details in Luke's description of the journey across Asia Minor -- including passing references to overland routes, sea routes, prevailing weather, local customs, local languages and dialects, local ethnic identities, local religious practices, local titles, local industries, a Roman official who held office in a particular location for only half a year, and the anomalous and temporary presence of two proconsuls in a region where normally there would be only one -- then I submit that you have no idea what real overwhelming historical evidence looks like.

I haven't presented even half of the evidence of this sort that I might have. But I am satisfied that what I have laid out presents an overwhelming case that Luke took the trip with Paul.

And the suggestion that it could have been copied out of a library like the one at the villa at Herculaneum is absurd, for reasons I have already laid out.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:50 AM   #9
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"If you cannot see such evidence in the accuracy of numerous details in Luke's description of the journey across Asia Minor -- including passing references to overland routes, sea routes, prevailing weather, local customs, local languages and dialects, local ethnic identities, local religious practices, local titles, local industries, a Roman official who held office in a particular location for only half a year, and the anomalous and temporary presence of two proconsuls in a region where normally there would be only one -- then I submit that you have no idea what real overwhelming historical evidence looks like."

To me, this glosses over the following logic. If we know this "obscure" information
now, then it was also known in the past. So the consistency is hardly impossible.
It still leaves open the possibility that someone used a travel log as a reference
to give the story a varying "local" flavor.

Given the questionable record of information seen in "inscriptions" on "artifacts"
from the times, one has to take the "confirmation" of a desired result from them
somewhat with a grain of salt.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Quote:
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My question is this: is it possible that a second century author could have access to written sources that gave detailed information on the geographical names and the correct titles of officials living fifty years prior?
Yes indeed.
It is probably possible. We do have to remember, tho, that the Roman empire was not like a modern state, and people doing research did not have the same facilities that we do. I'm not that sure about titles of minor officials, you know -- how would people know?

But surely the simplest explanation is that it was written when it seems to have been.

Quote:
Quote:
He feels that the argument that Luke used Josephus is weak.
This is called "hand waving." The argument is actually quite strong. See Luke and Josephus.
Don't spend any time on this one. It's a manufactured argument, put forward by people who are distinctly fringe, which exists solely in order to try to redate Acts. I don't know about you, but I despise attempts to rewrite history for ideological reasons.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
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