Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 02-27-2011, 11:53 AM

John Dominic Crossan's 'blasphemous' portrait of Jesus

Quote:

Crossan says Jesus was an exploited "peasant with an attitude" who didn't perform many miracles, physically rise from the dead or die as punishment for humanity's sins.

***

Crossan says it was "bliss" being a priest and scholar in the mid-1960s because the Roman Catholic Church had instituted a series of modernizing reforms.

But conservative church leaders fought those reforms, and Crossan says they pressured him to steer his research toward conclusions that reinforced church doctrine.

"It's like you're a scientist in research and development, and you say that this drug is lethal, and they say, 'Find something good in it,' '' Crossan says.

DCHindley · 02-27-2011, 08:05 PM

Writers like Crossan represent one end of the Christian spectrum, the other side is populated by Evangelicals. Modern Christianity can be represented by a matrix.

Category/Focus	Direct Relationship with God	Social Message of the Gospel
Liberal (Progressive)	Lower Value	Higher Value
Moderate (Mainline)	Moderate Value	Moderate Value
Conservative (Evangelical)	High Value	Lower Value

The essential difference between these two types of Christian is that the liberals value the social aspect of the gospel (turn the other cheek, everyone is your neighbor - including enemies, feed the hungry, clothe the nekkid, etc), while the Conservatives value the direct relationship with God/Christ. It is entirely possible for a Liberal to place no value whatsoever in the death, resurrection and atoning function of Jesus in Christian tradition. It is also entirely possible for a Conservative to place no value in the social aspects of Christian tradition. In reality, most Christians place some value in both. Those at the extremes, though, either hate or pity those of the other extreme.

Just my 2 cents.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

John Dominic Crossan's 'blasphemous' portrait of Jesus

Quote:

Crossan says Jesus was an exploited "peasant with an attitude" who didn't perform many miracles, physically rise from the dead or die as punishment for humanity's sins.

***

Crossan says it was "bliss" being a priest and scholar in the mid-1960s because the Roman Catholic Church had instituted a series of modernizing reforms.

But conservative church leaders fought those reforms, and Crossan says they pressured him to steer his research toward conclusions that reinforced church doctrine.

"It's like you're a scientist in research and development, and you say that this drug is lethal, and they say, 'Find something good in it,' '' Crossan says.

aa5874 · 02-27-2011, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

John Dominic Crossan's 'blasphemous' portrait of Jesus

Quote:

Crossan says Jesus was an exploited "peasant with an attitude" who didn't perform many miracles, physically rise from the dead or die as punishment for humanity's sins.

***

Crossan says it was "bliss" being a priest and scholar in the mid-1960s because the Roman Catholic Church had instituted a series of modernizing reforms.

But conservative church leaders fought those reforms, and Crossan says they pressured him to steer his research toward conclusions that reinforced church doctrine.

"It's like you're a scientist in research and development, and you say that this drug is lethal, and they say, 'Find something good in it,' '' Crossan says.

The fact that Crossan ADMITS he is a Christian show that even today being called a "Christian" is an ambiguity.

And further, Crossan PROVES that "Christians" most likely INVENTED their own Jesus.

Crossan's Jesus is NOT found in the HISTORIES of antiquity but in his HEAD.

Next, we may have the CROSSANITES.

Littlejohn · 03-01-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

John Dominic Crossan's 'blasphemous' portrait of Jesus

Quote:

Crossan says Jesus was an exploited "peasant with an attitude" who didn't perform many miracles, physically rise from the dead or die as punishment for humanity's sins.

***

Crossan says it was "bliss" being a priest and scholar in the mid-1960s because the Roman Catholic Church had instituted a series of modernizing reforms.

But conservative church leaders fought those reforms, and Crossan says they pressured him to steer his research toward conclusions that reinforced church doctrine.

"It's like you're a scientist in research and development, and you say that this drug is lethal, and they say, 'Find something good in it,' '' Crossan says.

For those who know the Italian language:

"Il Gesù di John Dominic Crossan

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...app_2373072738

Greetings

Littlejohn

.

Tigers! · 03-03-2011, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Next, we may have the CROSSANITES.

Or perhaps spelt croissants?

DrZoidberg · 03-03-2011, 04:44 AM

I think Jesus was a used donkey salesman in Jerusalem who needed an image over-haul. It went better than he expected. Prove it didn't happen!

Keith&Co. · 03-03-2011, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

I think Jesus was a used donkey salesman in Jerusalem who needed an image over-haul. It went better than he expected. Prove it didn't happen!

I prefer to think of Jesus as largely an invention of Paul's.

I imagined a conversation between Edmund Blackadder and the ghost of Paul...who he discovers resembles himself.

Quote:

BLACKADDER: So anyway, how did you, a heresologist of some standing, come to create the Church, and most of the Bible, as we know it today?

PaulADDER: Oh, that. It was Passover, and my father came to my house for the feast. He stepped through the door, smelled the food, and threatened to kick me out of the family.

BLACKADDER: Because it was that bad?

PaulADDER: Because it was a delicious roast pork.

BLACKADDER: I’m sorry?

PaulADDER: Not many Jews in Britain these days, are there?

BLACKADDER: Not really.

PaulADDER: Ah. Well, just take it from me. Pork wasn’t Kosher.

BLACKADDER: So what did you do?

PaulADDER: I told him the Messiah had approached me and told me that the dietary laws of Kasruth had expired.

BLACKADDER: I see. And then the rest of your testimony about the Christ, the nature of our covenant with God, our chances for salvation…

PaulADDER: Oh, I had it all outlined by the end of the weekend, then fleshed it out while I was traveling around.

BLACKADDER: It seems rather inspired.

PaulADDER: Well, when you’ve hunted down as many heretics as I have, you can do a pretty good impression of them when you have to.

BLACKADDER: So, you made it all up?

PaulADDER: Oh, no. After I used the name Jesus with Father, I had to back it up. Went and found all the material I could for what prophets were saying in and around Jerusalem, meshed it together, attributed it all to the same guy.

BLACKADDER: Didn’t you have some problems with James? And his Church?

PaulADDER: Oh, please. If it weren’t for me, Jesus wouldn’t even have been a footnote in Pilate’s memoirs. They were all wrapped up in that He’d been there, and what He’d done.

BLACKADDER: And you?

PaulADDER: Saw the potential in the future. First off, we lost that whole ‘circumcision’ thing. It’s alright when you’re cut before you’re old enough to complain, but it was a distinct deal breaker when it came to recruiting. And dietary laws…

PhilosopherJay · 03-03-2011, 05:45 AM

Hi DCHindley,

Good point. Nice clear chart.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

Writers like Crossan represent one end of the Christian spectrum, the other side is populated by Evangelicals. Modern Christianity can be represented by a matrix.

Category/Focus	Direct Relationship with God	Social Message of the Gospel
Liberal (Progressive)	Lower Value	Higher Value
Moderate (Mainline)	Moderate Value	Moderate Value
Conservative (Evangelical)	High Value	Lower Value

The essential difference between these two types of Christian is that the liberals value the social aspect of the gospel (turn the other cheek, everyone is your neighbor - including enemies, feed the hungry, clothe the nekkid, etc), while the Conservatives value the direct relationship with God/Christ. It is entirely possible for a Liberal to place no value whatsoever in the death, resurrection and atoning function of Jesus in Christian tradition. It is also entirely possible for a Conservative to place no value in the social aspects of Christian tradition. In reality, most Christians place some value in both. Those at the extremes, though, either hate or pity those of the other extreme.

Just my 2 cents.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

John Dominic Crossan's 'blasphemous' portrait of Jesus

PhilosopherJay · 03-03-2011, 05:58 AM

Hi Keith & Co,

Funny satire.

I imagine he would turn out to be a faithful apostle of Philo of Alexandria who never heard of Jesus Christ and had his three short letters to relatives in Antioch from Ephesus changed beyond recognition.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrZoidberg

I think Jesus was a used donkey salesman in Jerusalem who needed an image over-haul. It went better than he expected. Prove it didn't happen!

I prefer to think of Jesus as largely an invention of Paul's.

I imagined a conversation between Edmund Blackadder and the ghost of Paul...who he discovers resembles himself.

Quote:

BLACKADDER: So anyway, how did you, a heresologist of some standing, come to create the Church, and most of the Bible, as we know it today?
{snip}

PaulADDER: Saw the potential in the future. First off, we lost that whole ‘circumcision’ thing. It’s alright when you’re cut before you’re old enough to complain, but it was a distinct deal breaker when it came to recruiting. And dietary laws…

Keith&Co. · 03-03-2011, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilosopherJay

Hi Keith & Co,

Funny satire.

thanx...

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03-03-2011, 04:44 AM	#6
DrZoidberg Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 5,746	I think Jesus was a used donkey salesman in Jerusalem who needed an image over-haul. It went better than he expected. Prove it didn't happen!

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