sky kunde

I know there is a sculpture in a cave-temple at Elephanta that depicts the Indian children being slaughtered by king Kansa in order to kill Krishna. I've been looking for a picture of it on the web, but got nothing till now. Anybody here could get that?

GakuseiDon

I've also looked for it without success. I suspect that it is a myth put out by Christ Mythers.

It seems that the sculptures in the caves date back to around 500 CE, so actually post-date Christ. The sculptures don't appear to have anything like a 'massacre of innocents' nor Krishna, either.

From here:
http://www.mumbainet.com/travel/elephanta.htm

What is the source for your claim about the sculpture?

sky kunde

The source is here: http://www.infidels.org/library/maga...4/4prob93.html

(ctrl+f and search for "Kansa")

Toto

From that link Indian Antiquities is out of print, but you might be able to find a library copy.

Roller

Elephanta caves are (at least) 6th century CE. I'll look through my Indian art textbooks to see if there is a picture of it. I doubt that there's one, however. I've went through several very good books (namely Susan Huntington and Thomas Donaldson's books) this summer and I've never came across such picture.

Elephanta cave is famous though for the Mahadeva image.

sky kunde

So Mr. Till made a great mistake for having used this at a debate?

Roller

The image itself (if it exists) was, most likely, made sometimes in 6th century CE. The myth itself could, however, predate Christianity. I saw a good picture of Buddha walking on water and converting *guess who* - the fishermen Now this one, if my memory serves me correctly, predates Christianity for probably 100-200 years. Since the piece is an aniconic representation of Buddha it most likely predates 1st century CE. But that is another topic, I guess.

GakuseiDon

I've heard of the story of someone who so wanted to hear the Buddha, that he walked on water across a river in order to do so. I've never heard of any story of Buddha walking on water. AFAIK, Buddha said that performing miracles were flashy and not to be done by enlightened souls.

Where did you see the picture of Buddha walking on water?

Roller

I'm no Buddhist. What I know about Buddhism I learned from art class. I saw, however, images of Buddha's miracle at Sarasvati where he duplicated his image. So, I guess, he wasn't totally against miracles. He also "went up the heaven" to preach to the gods. Anyways, I saw the image in my art class lecture on a slide. On that image, you could see Buddha's footprints on water walking to the boat with fishermen. As I already mentioned, this is from "aniconic" period of Buddhist art where Buddha is not shown as a person (but as footprints, bodhi tree, dharma wheel, and so on).
Here's an image of Buddha's footprints (underneath the bodhi tree).


I think you could find the image of Buddha walking on water in Susan Huntington's Art Of Ancient India. I don't have the book with me, at the moment.

However, my other book from J.C. Harle (The Art and Architecture of the Indian Subcontinent) confirms that Elephanta cave was carved sometimes from 550-800CE (p. 123).

P.S. I don't know how to put link to Infidels in these Amazon links.

GakuseiDon

He could perform them, but was against them as a vehicle for conversation. From here:

After the third question, the Buddha replied that there were three kinds of supernormal levels:

1. The marvel of supernormal power to appear as many persons, to pass through walls, to fly through the air, walk on water. All these are physical actions the ordinary people cannot perform.
2. The supernormal power to read other people's minds.
3. The supernormal power to be able to guide people according to their mental development, for their own good, using suitable methods to fit these people.

The first two supernormal powers, if displayed for their own sake in order to impress people, are no different from the performance of magicians. A monk who practices such worldly miracles is a source of shame, humiliation and disgust. Such actions may impress and win converts and followers, but they do not bring enlightenment to help them put an end to suffering.

AFAIK Buddha never walked on water, but I'd be interested to learn otherwise.