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Old 08-30-2005, 12:01 AM   #1
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Default The last Roman king

Shia Muslims believe their 12th Imam has become invisible and he will return and kill lots of people and then he will be killed by an Iranian woman.

In their history books it is said that his father was the 11th Imam, and his mother was a roman woman.

It is said that the roman woman was the daughter of the last king of Romans, the Caesar of the Rome, who was enslaved when Muslims toppled the Roman Empire.

She had seen the 11th imam in her dreams and she knew that she will marry to this Imam. She converts to Islam after she had this dream.

And the fairy tale continues…

I need to investigate this further, who was the last king of Romans?

This Imam has lived between 846 and 874, could anything like that happen?
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:07 AM   #2
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812: a peace treaty between Charlemagne and the Eastern Roman Empire surrenders Venezia to the Eastern empire but grants Venezia the right to trade with the Holy Roman Empire
813: an Armenian general becomes eastern Roman emperor Leo V
840: Basil's fleet retakes Bari from the Muslims
843: Icons are restored
846: the city of Roma has 17,000 inhabitants
860: the Rus attack Constantinople
867: Basil I becomes the Byzantine emperor and founds the Macedonian dynasty
879: Basil I defeats the Arabs and reconquers Cappadocia

This is part of the roman empire timeline taken from:
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/romans.html

Apparently there WERE tensions between Muslims and the Romans at the time... But could the daughter of the King become enslaved at the time?
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:17 AM   #3
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There is a timeline of the Roman Empire here. By 846-874, the Roman Empire as we think of it was over, but had been replaced by the Holy Roman Empire (neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire, as it was said.)

You myth is discussed here: The Myth of the Shi’i Mahdi

Quote:
In due time a fantastic story was brought into circulation about the union between Hasan al-Askari and a Roman slave-girl, who is variously named as Narjis, Sawsan or Mulaykah. She is mentioned as having been the daughter of Yusha‘ (Joshua), the Roman emperor, who is a direct descendant of the apostle Simon Peter. But history shows that there never was a Roman emperor of that name. The Roman emperor of the time was Basil I, and neither he nor any other emperor is known to have descended from Peter. The story goes on to tell of her capture by the Muslim army, how she eventually came to be sold to Hasan al-Askari, and of her supernatural pregnancy and the secret birth of the son of whom no one— aside from Uthman ibn Sa‘id and his clique— knew anything. Everything about the child is enveloped in a thick and impenetrable cloud of mystery.
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persian
Shia Muslims believe their 12th Imam has become invisible and he will return and kill lots of people and then he will be killed by an Iranian woman.

In their history books it is said that his father was the 11th Imam, and his mother was a roman woman.

It is said that the roman woman was the daughter of the last king of Romans, the Caesar of the Rome, who was enslaved when Muslims toppled the Roman Empire.

She had seen the 11th imam in her dreams and she knew that she will marry to this Imam. She converts to Islam after she had this dream.

And the fairy tale continues…

I need to investigate this further, who was the last king of Romans?

This Imam has lived between 846 and 874, could anything like that happen?
The Romans disliked the term "King", ever since they had been occupied and ruled by Etruscan kings, in the early days before the republic was founded in 510 BC, or thereabouts,-(Lars Porsenna etc). The last Roman Emperor was Romulus Augustulus and was deposed in 476 AD by Odoacer a Germanic chieftain and relation of Attila the Hun. The Eastern Empire continued as the Byzantine empire until 1453 when Constantinople was captured by thre Turks.
The last Byzantine Emperor died fighting on the walls of Constantinople,--so I would say that your faiytale is just that, and a load of poppycock as well.
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:55 AM   #5
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If I'm not mistaken, there are various views among the Shi'ah as to exactly which Imam became "mahdi," or "hidden," or "occultated," and will return to kick some major Sunni butt. I think that some believe it was the seventh, and some the twelfth, and maybe a couple of other numbers besides. Your Shi'ah would be called "twelvers" because they believe it is the twelfth Imam. Interestingly enough, several people in the 19th century declared themselves to be the Imam Mahdi. Of these the best known in the west was Baha'u'llah
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:19 PM   #6
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Thanks a lot for your replies.

Now let's forget the last Roman king, is this possibe that the Roman princess of the time becomes enslaved by Muslim army? I mean is there any account for that?
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:49 PM   #7
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A geneology of Basil I does not show any daughters.
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:36 AM   #8
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In 1811 Napoleon revived the title 'king of the Romans' for his son. But we won't count that. The boy died in 1832.

Before that, the last king [rex] of the Romans was Lucius Tarquinius Superbus, who was deposed in 509 BC.

The last Roman emperor [imperator] in the West was Romulus Augustulus, who was deposed in AD 476.

Islam's only contact with any rulers styling themselves 'of the Romans' was with the Roman Empire in the East, with its capital at Constantinople (Byzantium, Istanbul). The last Roman emperor [basileus] in the East (Byzantine emperor) was Constantine XI (Constantine Dragases), who was killed in the (unsuccessful) defence of Constantinople against the Turks, in AD 1453.
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto
By 846-874, the Roman Empire as we think of it was over, but had been replaced by the Holy Roman Empire (neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire, as it was said.)
That is not quite right. The 'Holy Roman Empire' was founded in AD 800, when the pope crowned Charlemagne (king of the Franks) emperor. So it was going in the time mentioned. But at that time there was also a legitimate Roman Empire, one that had actual administrative continuity from teh classical empire, with it capital at Constantinople. We call that the Byzantine Empire, but it called itself, and its muslim neighbours would have known it as, Roman.
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