FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-07-2012, 05:19 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default Xylon versus Stauros for Tree

In terms of the usage of the Greek word xylon versus stauros, is there a scholarly consensus as to whether it simply means an actual tree or post as opposed to a cross?

In the gospels stauros refers to a cross, but in Acts it is xylon.

And has the Talmud reference in tractate Sanhedrin 43a referring to the hanging of Yeshu ever been translated into Greek, and if so which word is used?
Duvduv is offline  
Old 01-07-2012, 06:26 PM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Shape of the cross

This is a hot issue among Jehovah's Witnesses.

Quote:
In their own translation of the Bible, they use the phrase "torture stake" to translate the Greek word σταυρός (stauros) in the three passages cited: Matthew 27:40, Mark 15:30 and Luke 23:26.

They also say: "It was not until about 300 years after Jesus’ death that some professed Christians promoted the idea that Jesus was put to death on a two-beamed cross." Both these claims are disputed by other scholars, who say that at the time they were written, the words by which the Gospels referred to the gibbet on which Jesus died did not necessarily mean a stake, and Christian writers are cited who long before AD 300 specifically spoke of that gibbet as cross-shaped.
Since we have no eyewitnesses to the crucifixion, who knows?
Toto is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:06 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

In case anyone didn't follow the thread where I posted this before from Sanhedrin 43a, here it is again:

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover! — Ulla retorted: 'Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a Mesith [enticer], concerning whom Scripture says, Neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him? With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government [or royalty, i.e., influential].'
Duvduv is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:08 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

I am simply concerned here with the use of the language and terminology of crucifixion, cross and tree as understood by experts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Shape of the cross

This is a hot issue among Jehovah's Witnesses.

Quote:
In their own translation of the Bible, they use the phrase "torture stake" to translate the Greek word σταυρός (stauros) in the three passages cited: Matthew 27:40, Mark 15:30 and Luke 23:26.

They also say: "It was not until about 300 years after Jesus’ death that some professed Christians promoted the idea that Jesus was put to death on a two-beamed cross." Both these claims are disputed by other scholars, who say that at the time they were written, the words by which the Gospels referred to the gibbet on which Jesus died did not necessarily mean a stake, and Christian writers are cited who long before AD 300 specifically spoke of that gibbet as cross-shaped.
Since we have no eyewitnesses to the crucifixion, who knows?
Duvduv is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 09:23 AM   #5
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvduv View Post
I am simply concerned here with the use of the language and terminology of crucifixion, cross and tree as understood by experts.
Then read the link, or google the terms.
Toto is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 09:42 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

Duvduv reminds me of a lonely woman, always talking for the sake of making conversation. It's amazing how few people want to engage in a discussion with someone who has nothing to say
stephan huller is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 09:49 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

I will ignore this argumentum ad hominem and just say that I did Google the subject of my research and didn't find a response to the question I asked, STEPHAN.
But in terms of factual matters, have you noticed how few people engage you in your many long posts? Are you lonlier than everyone else? ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
Duvduv reminds me of a lonely woman, always talking for the sake of making conversation. It's amazing how few people want to engage in a discussion with someone who has nothing to say
Duvduv is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:04 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

I've had the idea of referencing you as dumdum rather than duduv for sometime now but have so far resisted the temptation
stephan huller is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:18 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

That's your prerogative, but I won't be drawn down into a personal ad hominem mudslinging match with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
I've had the idea of referencing you as dumdum rather than duduv for sometime now but have so far resisted the temptation
Duvduv is offline  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:41 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

Why don't you just do the work of actually reading books and articles written on the subjects you start threads? Understanding won't simply transfer magically into your head if you don't have the discipline to do the actual work.
stephan huller is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:28 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.