Vorkosigan

Heh. Constructed using common fraud techniques. It appears the English phrase "private collector" is derived from a Latin term meaning "mark"....

http://markgoodacre.org/Watson.pdf

Toto

It doesn't sound like a real smoking gun, although it raises some real questions.

"The text has been constructed out of small pieces – words or phrases – culled mostly from the Coptic Gospel of Thomas (GTh), Sayings 101 and 114, and set in new contexts. This is most probably the compositional procedure of a modern author who is not a native speaker of Coptic."

Robert Price noted the links to gThomas in his last Bible Geek of 9/20.

stephan huller

Oh God looks like they recycled their tired old arguments against Secret Mark again. These things aren't convincing in the case of Mar Saba 65 nor are they worth while here. Is Matthew a forgery? Yes, probably. But it is an ancient forgery. Yet the argument here is why isn't this fragment ancient. I hope people turn around this idiotic argument that Watson and others use if the ink passes the test.

Now in all fairness I am not convinced that the fragment is genuine. Alin Suciu and Stephen Emmel have voiced concerns that I think should be taken more seriously. Yet the whole Secret Mark angle is stupid. In fact the fact that King did not test the ink shows that Morton Smith being condemned for not stealing the manuscript is without foundation.

Quenton Quesnell complained that Morton Smith didn't test Mar Saba 65 but then in 1984 he had the same opportunity and did nothing. I spoke with Karen King about Morton Smith. She voiced the same concerns and then when she had a chance to make history and become famous - she did the same f----ing thing. These scholars are really something. Close down the humanities departments.

stephan huller

I keep going back to the fact that at the end of May of 2011 I got this email from the head of production at the network (I can produce it here if people want) that they were developing a documentary on the subject of codes and Biblical mysteries. I was in Orlando with my family. I remember getting the email and then immediately it was followed up with the production company's email. He wanted to my project but they choose instead to do this Jesus fragment. This means that I can tentatively date the time Karen King came into contact with the networks as the summer of 2010. I looked online and saw that they already shot the 'acting' part of the documentary (with a Mary Magdalene to boot) long ago. Why wasn't the ink tested in the last year? I find this impossible to reconcile.

stephan huller

Just got another email. Now they are telling me my project still sounds fascinating. These television people are something else too. No wonder so many suicides in the entertainment industry.

andrewcriddle

I have doubts whether the Watson paper establishes that the papyrus is modern.

What it does seem to establish is that the papyrus is an original work in Coptic composed by someone who knew the Coptic translation of the Gospel of Thomas. It seems unlikely to be a translation of an ancient Greek original.


Andrew Criddle

outhouse

if this was first century, and not found fraudulent, they would have something.


for me its null and void no matter what they find with a 4rth century date

stephan huller

andrew's analysis is reasonable and perceptive

Toto

Watson adds to his argument:

Introduction and Summary

Conclusion

stephan huller

pompous ass