David M. Payne

Evil/stupid acts of Jesus and the early Jews?

I'm finishing up my script for "Holy War" and I need a couple of acts of evil or stupidity on the part of Jesus and the early Jews. It's pretty easy to come up with them for Muhammad. I'm going to use his marriage to Aisha as an example of his act of evil, but I can't remember anything on Jesus or the early Jews that is in that category, or is patently stupid. The one where Jesus condemns the three cities is a bit too nebulous. (MT 11:21-24) Can any of you guys here help me? (OK, OK the whole Bible and Torah could qualify, but I need small examples that could fit into dialog. )

Thanks,

David

GakuseiDon

Cursing the fig tree?

Chris Weimer

Calling a non-Jew a dog

David M. Payne

I was hoping for examples that are a bit more unsetteling than the fig tree or calling a non Jew a dog. Something almost as bad or as stupid as my example for Islam above.

David

Toto

There is the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts Chapter 5. They were supposed to join a Christian commune and sell all that they owned and give the money to the group, but they held some back. They both died under mysterious circumstances - struck down by God or frightened by Peter?.

But really, you are not going to find a lot of wickedness in the NT, since it was written to conform to the ideas of virtue at the time it was written, and our society has had about 2000 years to reconcile everything it it. Much of what appears to be wickedness is really symbolic, like the fig tree, or the demons sent into an innocent herd of pigs, or is the abstract threatening people with hell fire if they do not straighten up.

You could consult www.skepticsannotatedbible.com - click on the section for cruelty and violence. But most of the NT verses listed there are grasping at straws to find cruelty. I would not use most of these, but some might give you ideas.

Matthew

Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. [This is overstated.] This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

"the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

Jesus shows no compassion for the bereaved, saying to a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21 . [This is something of a misinterpretation.]

Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:21

Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7 . [This is a strange interpretation.]

Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9 . [This is overstated.]

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

Mark

Jesus becomes angry at those who said that he had "an unclean spirit," so he announces the unforgivable sin: "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost." 3:29

Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-13

Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16

Luke

God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words of Jesus: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27

John

Jesus believes people are crippled by God a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6

Acts

Peter wrongly claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all nonchristians) must be killed. 3:23

Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10

Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13

Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6

The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23

Paul, with his usual humility, speaks for God saying that David was "a man after mine own heart." Which makes some sense, anyway, since David was nearly as cruel as the biblical god. 13:22

The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34

Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11

Jesus bought a church with his own blood. 20:28

Diogenes the Cynic

You could find a lot of juicy stuff on Moses, though. The guy was a stone psychopath and mass murderer.

Professor

My vote for Jesus most overtly evil act was his assault on the people in the temple.

Jhn 2:12 After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days.
Jhn 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Jhn 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Jhn 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Jhn 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

The merchants in this case had violated no old testament laws, in fact they provided services which supported those laws. Yahweh was very specific about the quality of animal which should be sacrificed to him. (Ahh that sweet savour!) Purchasing the certified animals in the temple guaranteed that The Jealous God would not smite you for insulting him.

The coins of most nations (including our own) are engraved with images of people, animals, etc., and Yahweh specifically told Moses that he hates graven images. Anyone taking such coins into the temple, or donating them to the temple, would be committing sacrilege. So the money changers who exchanged foreign coins for special undecorated temple money provided a sacred service.

Jesus proceeds to whip these innocent people for no justifiable purpose. He then vandalized their property. Notice that he doesn't even attempt to persuade them to leave before he starts his brutal attack. The whipping scene from the Passion of the Christ elicits a lot less sympathy when you realize that Jesus had no moral compunctions about whipping other people. He should have known that those who live by the whip shall die by the whip.

David M. Payne

Thanks Toto, D/C and the Prof. I was also thinking of pointing out just how cruel it was to allow Jesus to hang on the cross. Something along the lines of having the actor playing Jesus tell "Dad" that this really hurt and couldn’t he do something to help him out in a Monty Python kind of way. (I think Mel Gibson would be perfect for the role. I could just leave him hanging there for a while, as I tried to get the lights and camera angles and sound just right! ) I agree that the NT pretty well whitewashed out of the kind of cruelty that we see in the OT. But I covered that in "Bob." I think the NT is a slick PR move to burnish the Image of God and give us a new idol to worship in Jesus. Plus the Christians and Muslims did avoid the Jews one big mistake in their religion, they made their dogma exclusive to a great degree by limiting it to Jews! Hum, maybe that could be a good angle to go with in the movie.

Do any of you have any good examples of some of the bad things that happened in the Torah/OT in relation to the Jews? It could be outright cruelty or something along the lines of what the boys in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life" did. I need a little black humor as well as the horror and sex I already have in "Holy War" on my web site.

By the way check your supermarkets cheap movie bin, I got the two disc wide screen deluxe DVD of "The Meaning of Life" the other day for $10.

David

The Bible Thumper

Hmmm. Since Atheists wiped out nearly all of European jewry during WWII, I'd have to say that 'cursing a fig tree' ain't all that bad!

The Bible Thumper

What this verbal diarrhea is effectively saying is that Jesus most evil act was chasing out the businessmen and merchants exploitiong the newly-built temple.

Jesus removing businessmen and tax collectors from The Most High Temple of God. Evil, evil, evil!!!