Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 10-09-2006, 03:44 AM

Although Jesus Christ is claimed to be sinless by most forms of Xianity, I think that the Gospels indicate otherwise. I will start with the Seven Deadly Sins of medieval Catholicism:

Lust - No evidence of this in the Gospels; he even hangs around prostitutes without feeling the least bit tempted. The most that is speculated about him extracanonically is that Mary Magdalene was his girlfriend or even his wife.

Innocent

Gluttony/Indulgence - He's called a wine-drinker in one place, but aside from that, I don't see much evidence of that.

Innocent

Greed/Avarice - He had none for material wealth.

Innocent

Sloth/Laziness - Though he stated that he would make his Second Coming in the lifetimes of his listeners, he has failed to deliver on his promise.

Guilty

Wrath/Anger - He foamed at the mouth at those who would not listen to him, and also at those scribes and Pharisees. He threw a temper tantrum at a certain figless fig tree and also at the merchants in the Jerusalem Temple.

Guilty

Envy/Jealousy - I don't see what would reasonably count as that.

Innocent

Pride/Arrogance - Calling himself the Messiah, King of the Jews, and even God himself could qualify.

Guilty

Adding up,
Innocent: 4
Guilty: 3

Thus, he was a sinner.

Tigers! · 10-09-2006, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

Although Jesus Christ is claimed to be sinless by most forms of Xianity, I think that the Gospels indicate otherwise. I will start with the Seven Deadly Sins of medieval Catholicism:

Lust - No evidence of this in the Gospels; he even hangs around prostitutes without feeling the least bit tempted. The most that is speculated about him extracanonically is that Mary Magdalene was his girlfriend or even his wife.

Innocent

Gluttony/Indulgence - He's called a wine-drinker in one place, but aside from that, I don't see much evidence of that.

Innocent

Greed/Avarice - He had none for material wealth.

Innocent

Sloth/Laziness - Though he stated that he would make his Second Coming in the lifetimes of his listeners, he has failed to deliver on his promise.

Guilty

Wrath/Anger - He foamed at the mouth at those who would not listen to him, and also at those scribes and Pharisees. He threw a temper tantrum at a certain figless fig tree and also at the merchants in the Jerusalem Temple.

Guilty

Envy/Jealousy - I don't see what would reasonably count as that.

Innocent

Pride/Arrogance - Calling himself the Messiah, King of the Jews, and even God himself could qualify.

Guilty

Adding up,
Innocent: 4
Guilty: 3

Thus, he was a sinner.

The Pride/Arrogance would not apply if he was indeed who he claimed to be. It would then be a statement of fact.

Boro Nut · 10-09-2006, 04:53 AM

The following would also be sins in Britain:

Tax evasion.

Failure to declare one's divinity on a national census.

Truancy.

Fraud.

Taking a vehicle without consent - donkey.

Ditto - Allowing oneself to be carried as a passenger in a stolen vehicle.

Ditto - Joyriding.

Purchasing condiments on a Sunday (one of those laws someone forgot to repeal)

Breach of the peace.

Incitement to riot.

Vagrancy.

Ascending to Heaven without a license in controlled air space.

Breach of Promise.

Boro Nut

EarlOfLade · 10-09-2006, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

Lust - No evidence of this in the Gospels; he even hangs around prostitutes without feeling the least bit tempted. The most that is speculated about him extracanonically is that Mary Magdalene was his girlfriend or even his wife.

Innocent

Ehhh... Are you not forgetting something.

Just because a man is around female prostitutes without gaving sex with them, doesn't make him a non sinner. I think the jesus myth seems to be clearly gay. Gay men often have female friends (without lusting for them ofcourse) and he surrounded himself with only men (the diciples). I think the last supper was the start of a gay orgy.

Guilty!

hatsoff · 10-09-2006, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

Sloth/Laziness - Though he stated that he would make his Second Coming in the lifetimes of his listeners, he has failed to deliver on his promise.

Guilty

He implied he would make his second coming in the Apostles' lifetimes, but he did not say it right out. Anyway, that would be the sin of deception, not sloth, and only if (a) he intended to imply what he did and (b) he didn't just change his mind later on.

Quote:

Wrath/Anger - He foamed at the mouth at those who would not listen to him, and also at those scribes and Pharisees. He threw a temper tantrum at a certain figless fig tree and also at the merchants in the Jerusalem Temple.

Guilty

Since when is anger a sin?

Quote:

Pride/Arrogance - Calling himself the Messiah, King of the Jews, and even God himself could qualify.

Guilty

According to the Bible, he was all of those things, which makes his statements fact, not pride.

Alf · 10-09-2006, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

The Pride/Arrogance would not apply if he was indeed who he claimed to be. It would then be a statement of fact.

That is not always true. You can say a statement of fact - however, the manner in which you say it and the situation in which you say it can still qualiify it as arrogance.

Thus, even if we did accept that he was speaking the truth or believed himself to be speaking the truth. It would still be a possible evidence of pride and/or arrogance. You simply have to look deeper into the situations where it occur.

Alf

Vashtarah · 10-09-2006, 07:47 PM

Just as a devil's advocate here, I'd like to point out that the Seven Deadly Sins are not a biblical concept. They were introduced by a pope in the 7th century. Maybe this means Jesus is off the hook...

Anat · 10-09-2006, 09:14 PM

OTOH as a Jew didn't he commit blasphemy and break the Shabbat?

lpetrich · 10-09-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

OTOH as a Jew didn't he commit blasphemy and break the Shabbat?

Yes, Jesus Christ was a Sabbath-breaker.

Matthew 12:1-14, Mark 2:23-28, 3:1-6, Luke 6:1-11 -- Jesus Christ defends his disciples' plucking grain on a Sabbath; he also heals someone in that Sabbath.

Luke 13:10-17 -- Jesus Christ again heals someone on a Sabbath.
Luke 14:1-6 -- Jesus Christ defends his Sabbath healings.
John 5:1-15 -- Jesus Christ does more Sabbath healing.
John 7:21-24 -- Jesus Christ again defends his Sabbath healings.
John 9:1-34 -- Jesus Christ does even more Sabbath healing.

Accused of blasphemy:

Matthew 26:65
Luke 5:21
John 10:33

Anat · 10-09-2006, 11:50 PM

Regarding Sabbath - around that time Judaism permited life-saving treatments on Shabbat, but non-urgent treatments (such as curing blindness and other chronic conditions) were supposed to wait for weekdays.

10-09-2006, 03:44 AM	#1
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	What Sins Did Jesus Christ Commit? Although Jesus Christ is claimed to be sinless by most forms of Xianity, I think that the Gospels indicate otherwise. I will start with the Seven Deadly Sins of medieval Catholicism: Lust - No evidence of this in the Gospels; he even hangs around prostitutes without feeling the least bit tempted. The most that is speculated about him extracanonically is that Mary Magdalene was his girlfriend or even his wife. Innocent Gluttony/Indulgence - He's called a wine-drinker in one place, but aside from that, I don't see much evidence of that. Innocent Greed/Avarice - He had none for material wealth. Innocent Sloth/Laziness - Though he stated that he would make his Second Coming in the lifetimes of his listeners, he has failed to deliver on his promise. Guilty Wrath/Anger - He foamed at the mouth at those who would not listen to him, and also at those scribes and Pharisees. He threw a temper tantrum at a certain figless fig tree and also at the merchants in the Jerusalem Temple. Guilty Envy/Jealousy - I don't see what would reasonably count as that. Innocent Pride/Arrogance - Calling himself the Messiah, King of the Jews, and even God himself could qualify. Guilty Adding up, Innocent: 4 Guilty: 3 Thus, he was a sinner.

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10-09-2006, 04:53 AM	#3
Boro Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Middlesbrough, England Posts: 3,909	The following would also be sins in Britain: Tax evasion. Failure to declare one's divinity on a national census. Truancy. Fraud. Taking a vehicle without consent - donkey. Ditto - Allowing oneself to be carried as a passenger in a stolen vehicle. Ditto - Joyriding. Purchasing condiments on a Sunday (one of those laws someone forgot to repeal) Breach of the peace. Incitement to riot. Vagrancy. Ascending to Heaven without a license in controlled air space. Breach of Promise. Boro Nut

10-09-2006, 07:47 PM	#7
Vashtarah Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: KW, ON, Canada Posts: 307	Just as a devil's advocate here, I'd like to point out that the Seven Deadly Sins are not a biblical concept. They were introduced by a pope in the 7th century. Maybe this means Jesus is off the hook...

10-09-2006, 09:14 PM	#8
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	OTOH as a Jew didn't he commit blasphemy and break the Shabbat?

10-09-2006, 11:50 PM	#10
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	Regarding Sabbath - around that time Judaism permited life-saving treatments on Shabbat, but non-urgent treatments (such as curing blindness and other chronic conditions) were supposed to wait for weekdays.

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