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Old 02-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Onias View Post
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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
After a while it becomes pointless to argue it any further on this Forum.

You Onias, state that you are a 'Jew' (post # 157 above)

That being, you ought to be taking your translation arguments up with The Jewish Publishing Society and persuading your fellow Jews to change their rendering of Genesis 15:6 to your satisfaction. (as I pointed out the common KJV and Catholic Bibles do not have this problem)

Really I have no idea how many JPS Bibles have been printed and distributed since 1917, but as it is the English version most accepted by English speaking Jews, and its rendering of Gen 15:6 has been long accepted by America's English speaking Jews, and in that it has been, that seems to verify that it is the acceptable reading and prevailing 'Jewish position' on this matter. If you want to revise Jewish Bible's you need to take it up with the Jewish Rabbi's, scholars, and publishers.

With a whole lot of work you might possibly be able to bulldoze your fellow Jews into tossing out, or whiting out and re-writing this verse in their JPS Bibles. But doing so will not alter the opinion of those many Jews and Gentiles that disagree with your interpretation.
There are two differing views on this text and each of these views have had their supporters for ages.
No matter how long you may argue your view on this, you cannot force feed your opinion to those who aren't swallowing it.
A fact of life that you will just have to learn to live with.
Accusing me of "bulldozing" or "force Feeding" my views on others is inflammatory and offensive. I should not be bullied into accepting your view or anyone else's. We need to discuss the merits of an issue without resorting to demogogic or abusive language.

As to my being a Jew, that does not impede my right to think freely and to question authority. Many Jewish sages and rabbis have disagreed with one another. And I have the rigtht within the rules of this forum to speak freely as long as I do not engage in ad hominem attacks or attempt to bully others. So please stop trying to bully me.
Onias my friend, I did not accuse you of bulldozing anyone, I wrote;

Quote:
With a whole lot of work you might possibly be able to bulldoze YOUR FELLOW JEWS'
That's future tense, ie something that HAS NOT yet done. But what you would need to do to get what you want accomplished.
And the recipients would not be this Forum, but 'YOUR FELLOW JEWS' -the JEWISH JPS Bible translators.
The statement -in context- has nothing to do with what you are posting on this Forum.

Same with 'force feed'. It is -qualified- with;
Quote:
you CANNOT force feed your opinion....'
If you CANNOT do it, then you simply can't do it. It CAN'T be done, so there is nothing inflammatory and offensive about it.

I'm not 'bullying' you, I'm just saying that others of an opposing opinion are not necessarily going to agree with you, no matter how often you reintroduce the matter, or how you may try to angle it.

My initial observation that you stated you are a Jew, and that your argument is essentially in opposition to that rendering as it appears within the JPS Bible, it is for you, and for your fellow Jews a 'Jewish' matter, and your most effective approach would be to take the matter up with your fellow Jews.
No insistence that you have to do so, just a suggestion as to how you might best accomplish your goal of revising the thinking of thousands of people on the matter.
It really doesn't matter to me if you wish to post another thousand posts here on the same subject, but here you're not reaching or persuading much of an audience. (its called 'spinning your wheels', you're not getting anywhere with your efforts)

If you can't learn to live with the fact that others have different opinions, and that fact continues to upset you, or makes you angry and miserable because you can't persuade them to think your way, you have my sympathy.

But that is the way life is.

When I say its 'A fact of life that you will just have to learn to live with.' It is only your peace of mind that I have in mind.

There are a lot of opinions in this world that I personally disagree with, but after I have clearly stated my disagreement, I put a smile on my face and get on with enjoying life.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:07 PM   #172
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Sheshbazzar
Yes, I list my religion as Judaism, but not Rabbinic Judaism, which I view as a lukewarm and apostate form of Judaism that was formed out of the accomodationist sect of the Pharisees and turncoats such as Johanan ben Zachai.

And once again, I cannot force feed my opinions (now or in the future tense) on others or "bulldoze" others into accepting my views by any other means than the logic of my writing.

Aside from logical persuasion, the most effective way to gain favor with others is to maintain a dignified and respectful manner, and to refrain from abusive language. It is much better to refrain from quickly replying to posts that are inflammatory. Better to wait until later. This is good advice for anybody who will accept it (and also a part of the list protocol).
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