Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 03-06-2013, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

"We....here"...? __I don't think so Chili. Few if any here call anything what you call it.

No Just kidding, and know you all mean well.

I know you mean well too Chili.

Quote:

I do see the error we all see except to me it is all philosophy as just to love of wisdom unto myself, and am just ranting here.

Much indeed is philosophy.

But to investigate history we need chronology - dates.

These are not exactly philosophical.

We get dates from various sources of evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

During the time that Catholicism was the official state religion everybody was allowed to believe, or not believe.

Not according to the all the evidence available. Yes, some evidence suggests everything was idyllic and harmonious. However other evidence suggests precisely the opposite with effect from the appearance of the official state religion in the year 325 CE.

We have to weigh the evidence.
Some of it is positive, some of it is negative.

Be well.

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Chili · 03-06-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Do you really think that Paul or whoever wrote II Thessalonians meant that this central Christian doctrine was a delusion? Does that mean that you think this is an anti-Christian argument? Why is this letter in the NT?

I'm just trying to understand your argument.

Hi Toto, no I don't. Paul's concept of the True Gospel is completely foreign to the false gospel (the delusional one) which is believed by most today. The strong delusion that Paul was speaking about is a twisting and distorting of the True Gospel that he believed in. This twisting and distorting of the true Gospel is how the false gospel of substitutionalism began (the innocent and righteous killed in the place of the wicked). At the time of Paul, there was an onslaught of false teachers and doctrines that were invading the One True Church. Here is a list of some examples:

1. Paul spoke of the Galatians accepting "another" gospel (Gal 1:6-9).

2. Paul also spoke of the Corinthians easily accepting another "Jesus" and gospel (2 Cor 11:4).

3. Paul predicted that some of the Ephesian elders would join in with the invading wolves and not spare the Flock (Acts 20:29-30).

4. Peter said that false teachers were among them, and they were twisting and distorting what Paul wrote (2 Pet 2:1-3, 2 Pet 3:15-18).

5. Jude warns about those who have "secretly" slipped in amongst them and to contend for the faith that was FIRST delivered, for these ungodly false teachers would turn the Grace of Elohim into licentiousness (someone dying in your stead so you don't have to TURN from sin) (Jude 1:3-4).

Hopefully, this gives you a little better idea of where I am coming from. KB

Right, and do not forget Galatians 5:1-4 where he identified them very clear.

Verse 4 concludes: "Any of you who seek your justification in the law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God's favor."

And then be reminded that he called them 'bewitched" already in 3:1.

Chili · 03-06-2013, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

"We....here"...? __I don't think so Chili. Few if any here call anything what you call it.

No Just kidding, and know you all mean well.

I know you mean well too Chili.

Quote:

I do see the error we all see except to me it is all philosophy as just to love of wisdom unto myself, and am just ranting here.

Much indeed is philosophy.

But to investigate history we need chronology - dates.

These are not exactly philosophical.

We get dates from various sources of evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

During the time that Catholicism was the official state religion everybody was allowed to believe, or not believe.

Not according to the all the evidence available. Yes, some evidence suggests everything was idyllic and harmonious. However other evidence suggests precisely the opposite with effect from the appearance of the official state religion in the year 325 CE.

We have to weigh the evidence.
Some of it is positive, some of it is negative.

Be well.

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Hi mm, ty, and yes and I do believe that when the call to Order was made by Eusebius & co that Catholicism was to be the religion of Christendom it was like an earth-quake to many or to most. I really can not imagine how he got that done, and also know nothing about it except what I read here. I also do not study it to see for myself as that is far too big for me.

And you do your work well, no doubt, and I just spin my line and do it with a smile. If anything, I am a critic in this sense wherein I read the poetic verse, and if that does not jive I just leave it alone.

It really has nothing to do with right and wrong as my reader will be the judge of that, but if only as much as I put a question mark behind his thoughts that is already good enough.

Be well, ty.

Ken Brown · 03-07-2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Hi Toto, no I don't. Paul's concept of the True Gospel is completely foreign to the false gospel (the delusional one) which is believed by most today. The strong delusion that Paul was speaking about is a twisting and distorting of the True Gospel that he believed in. This twisting and distorting of the true Gospel is how the false gospel of substitutionalism began (the innocent and righteous killed in the place of the wicked). At the time of Paul, there was an onslaught of false teachers and doctrines that were invading the One True Church. Here is a list of some examples:

1. Paul spoke of the Galatians accepting "another" gospel (Gal 1:6-9).

2. Paul also spoke of the Corinthians easily accepting another "Jesus" and gospel (2 Cor 11:4).

3. Paul predicted that some of the Ephesian elders would join in with the invading wolves and not spare the Flock (Acts 20:29-30).

4. Peter said that false teachers were among them, and they were twisting and distorting what Paul wrote (2 Pet 2:1-3, 2 Pet 3:15-18).

5. Jude warns about those who have "secretly" slipped in amongst them and to contend for the faith that was FIRST delivered, for these ungodly false teachers would turn the Grace of Elohim into licentiousness (someone dying in your stead so you don't have to TURN from sin) (Jude 1:3-4).

Hopefully, this gives you a little better idea of where I am coming from. KB

Right, and do not forget Galatians 5:1-4 where he identified them very clear.

Verse 4 concludes: "Any of you who seek your justification in the law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God's favor."

And then be reminded that he called them 'bewitched" already in 3:1.

Hi Chili, considering what Paul wrote in Gal 5:1-6, how do you view what Paul did here:

Acts 16:1 - 16:3

(1) Now he arrived at Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek, (2) who had a good testimony by the brothers in Lystra and Iconium. (3) Paul wanted [Timothy] to accompany him, and taking him, he circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was Greek.

Chili, why do you think Paul circumcised Timothy when he so vehemently spoke against circumcision in Galatians? KB

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.