DCHindley

Earl,

Just to give you a taste of all the allusions to the gospels that seem to be present, and to illustrate how closely the Didache follows gospel details, here is a table that shows only chapter 16. You might say that some of these are interpolations, or that they are commonplaces of the day, but if so, please cite a scholar who thinks so or point to outside sources that contain similar ideas. If you like, I can examine what the experts say in Didache in Context and Didache in Modern Research.

I'm still working on the other passages that were under discussion (4:1,12,13; 6:2; 8:2; 9:5; 10:5; 11;2,4,8; 12:1; 14:3; 15:1,4).

Didache	Matthew	Luke, Mark or Other
16:1a "Watch" for your life's sake (Γρηγορεῖτε ὑπὲρ τῆς ζωῆς ὑμῶν)	Mt 24:38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. … 42a Watch therefore (Γρηγορεῖτε οὖν)	Lk 21:36a But watch at all times (ἀγρυπνεῖτε δὲ ἐν παντὶ καιρω)
1b "Let not your lamps be quenched	Mt 25:8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'	Lk 12:35b and your lamps burning
1c nor your loins unloosed;	.	Lk 12:35a "Let your loins be girded
1d but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which the Lord of us cometh."	Mt 24:42b for you do not know on what day the Lord of you is coming.	Lk 12:40 You also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an unexpected hour."
2a But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls:	.	.
2b for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.	.	Novatian a prominent Roman presbyter [and schismatic pope 251-258 CE] … insisted that no lapsed person [under the Decian persecution 250-252 CE] should be readmitted to the church. Novatian contended that the lapsed had forfeited grace through a denial of Christ.
3a For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied,	Mt 7:15a "Beware of false prophets, Mt 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. Mt 24:24a For false Christs and false prophets will arise	Mk 13:22a False Christs and false prophets will arise
3b and the sheep (πρόβατα) shall be turned into wolves,	Mt 7:15b who come to you in sheep's (προβάτων) clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Mt 10:16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep (πρόβατα) in the midst of wolves	Lk 10:3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs (ἄρνας) in the midst of wolves.
3c and love shall be turned into hate;	Mt 24:10b and hate one another.	.
4a for when lawlessness increaseth,	Mt 24:12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold.	.
4b they shall hate and persecute and betray one another,	Mt 24:10a And then many will fall away, and betray one another,	.
4c and then shall appear the world-deceiver (κοσμοπλανὴς) as Son of God (ὡς υἱὸς θεοῦ = as son of god/as a son of god),	.	2 Thes 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness (ὁ ἄνθρωπος τῆς ἀνομίας) is revealed, the son of perdition (ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας)
4d and shall do signs and wonders,	Mt 24:24b and show great signs and wonders,	Mk 13:22b and show signs and wonders
4e and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning.	.	2 Thes 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God (ὅτι ἔστιν θεός = that he is god/a god).
5a Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial,	.	.
5b and many shall be made to stumble (σκανδαλισθήσονται) and shall perish;	Mt 18:7b For it is necessary that temptations (σκάνδαλα) come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation (σκάνδαλον) comes! Mt 24:24c so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.	Lk 17:1 And he said to his disciples, "Temptations to sin (σκάνδαλα) are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come! Mk 13:22c to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
5c but they that endure in their faith shall be saved	Mt 24:13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.	.
5d from under the curse itself (ὑπ᾽ αὐτοῦ τοῦ καταθέματος = under of/from himself/itself the according to sacred dedication).	.	.
6a And then shall appear the signs of the truth	.	.
6b first, the sign of an out-spreading in heaven (ἐκπετάσεως ἐν οὐρανῷ = out-flying in heaven)	Mt 24:31a and he will send out (ἀποστελεῖ) his angels … 31d from one end of heaven to the other.	.
6c then the sign of the sound of the trumpet	Mt 24:31b with a loud trumpet call	.
6d and the third, the resurrection of the dead	.	.
7 yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him.	Mt 24:31c and they will gather his elect from the four winds	.
8 Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.	Mt 24:30b and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory	.

Until then ...

DCH

PhilosopherJay

Hi DCHindley,

Thanks for this.

Note that there are not two sentences repeated in the same order.

This certainly proves that there was no oral tradition in early Christianity, but people rewrote text willy-nilly, rearranging texts and cutting and adding whatever they liked at the moment putting it in their own words. The writers of the gospels and the Didache all worked this way.

It is easy to see that the earlier document is the Didache. On line 8, it has "Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven." Matthew has changed this line pointing to the return of God-the creator to earth with the idea of a son-of-man: "and they will see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Obviously the Jewish monotheistic idea of the Creator God coming upon the clouds, predates the Christian polytheistic idea of an angelic son of man coming.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

maryhelena

Hi, DC

Apocalyptic and prophetic stuff seems to crop up everywhere, even in this modern day! Fascination with it seems to have considerable staying power. But, at the end of the day, all it really is is a vehicle for carrying the hopes and dreams of people for a better future. The ‘sign of the times’, ‘the end is near’, are simply reflecting that age old refrain - history repeats itself, the storm may bring distress but the sun will shine tomorrow...

What I see, or rather what I don’t see, in the Didache, is what interests me. It’s failure to mention that foundation stone, the very symbol, of Christianity, the cross, the crucifixion of JC. In view of ‘Paul’s statement that it is the cross that he preaches and that it is the cross that is the stumbling block - this failure in the Didache to acknowledge this very basic Christian story, should be raising lots of questions.

A story, a remembrance, of a JC figure that was not crucified? Well, that is a picture that is painted by George Wells with his non-crucified Galilean preacher figure. (which of course Wells cannot provide any history for.)

My own theory, that the JC gospel figure reflects the history of two people, Antigonus and Philip the Tetrarch - a history that has been fused into the gospel JC composite figure. Antigonus was bound to a cross, crucified, flogged and beheaded. Philip the Tetrarch lived to old age and was not crucified.

I’d like to suggest that the Didache, with it’s lack of a crucifixion story, is basing it’s JC model entirely upon the life of Philip the Tetrarch. Yes, the gospels have fused together the life history of Antigonus and Philip - but perhaps the writer, writers, of the Didache, wanted to preserve some independence from the gospel JC crucifixion story. A gospel JC story that is entirely a pseudo-historical story. Followers, friends, of the non-crucified Philip perhaps sought to keep history first and foremost in their remembrance of him.

(always good to keep in mind that it is from Bethsaida that the early disciples came - Philip dying in Bethsaida Julius - and that it was in the area of Caesarea Philippi – Philip’s capital - that the question of the messiahship of the gospel JC is raised....)

jgoodguy

There is all this speculation on what Christian literature should mention. I would like to see a frequency distribution of what actually is in Christian literature by word and concept.

For example, 'cross' is mentioned 40 times in the NT out of 138,020 words, 7956 chapters, 260 verses and 27 books.

12 of 27 books, less than 1/2 of the total mention it.

In rather crude probability, the chances of the Didache mentioning the cross is less than 50%

With this same crude probability, the chance of any given word being 'cross' is 1 in 3400. It appears to me that the NT is almost devoid of the word. If the NT is almost devoid, then there is little remarkable about any given Christian literature also being devoid of the word.

The Didache has 2969 words in it and it is unsurprising that 'cross' does not appear.

Crucifixion is even rarer in the NT, 5 times in 4 books in the NT.

maryhelena

So, you can imagine a christianity minus a crucifixion story?

I'm certainty not concerned whether it's a cross, stake or tree - it's the story about a crucified JC that is central to christianity... (whatever the shape of the means of execution)

The Didache, minus any reference to that central tenet of christianity, could be suggesting something other than the pseudo-historical gospel JC crucifixion storyline. ie history of a man who was not crucified.

DCHindley

Well, that's why they invented Concordances. Personally I use Young's Analytical Concordance (or via: amazon.co.uk) (generally considered better for word studies than Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (or via: amazon.co.uk), both of which are keyed to the KJV, although Strongs is also available for the NKJV, NIV and possibly other versions).

In Young's I get 77 occasions of the noun stauros or its verbal forms.

If you can read Greek letters, you can get a huge amount of info about relative use of words used in each book of the bible, including the frequency used in each book and in the NT as a whole, in Sakae Kubo's A Reader's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

DCH

jgoodguy

You are correct about Concordance and Greek. I agree with DCHindley that better tools can generate better results.

I did a quick and dirty online English translation scan. Once you add variations of cross, crucify, crucifixion to the scan, the hits go up, but hits not directly related to Christ also go up. I assume the same is true regarding the Greek. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words gives the example of Heb_6:6 for this.

In summary, a quick and dirty analysis taking a few minutes calls into question the assumption that certain words or concepts just have to be in a selected example of Christian literature. Those in the affirmative need some basis for that assumption other than personal opinion.

maryhelena

Sure, christian literature does not have to always contain a specific reference to the crucifixion story. However, we have something within the Didache, the Eucharist meal, that is indeed very strange, very notable, in it's failure to mention anything to do with the 'normal' christian Eucharist meal - a meal referencing the bread and wine being symbolic of the body and blood of JC that is going to be poured out for the new covenant. That is a very big omission. It suggests that either this Eucharist meal in the Didache predates the later theological developments or that the Eucharist meal in the Didache is being celebrated by those who hold to, follow, a historical figure that was not crucified, ie hence no blood sacrifice. Either way, and possibly even both, the Didache Eucharist meal presents a scenario that should not simply be overlooked.

Who Wrote The New Testament? The Making of the Christian Myth (or via: amazon.co.uk) Burton L. Mack

jgoodguy

Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 contain no instructions as to ritual nor do any of the Gospels.

This Eucharist is more like the one of Paul: This suggest that the Eucharist was a regular meal much like Paul was regulating.
Notice what Mack said

Given that no instructions exist in the NT describing what a Eucharist ritual is supposed to be like, it is not odd to find a group that takes a conservative approach to it by not adding to the scripture in their possession.

In addition, a Jewish Christian group would have a difficult time drinking blood or eating human flesh no matter how symbolic.

This gives a third possibility: that of a Jewish orientated or influenced group.

in summary, an early and Jewish oriented group would not have the same Eucharist rituals as a more orthodox or Gentile group.

maryhelena

There is no connection between the two Eucharist meals, that of “Paul” and the Didache. One is dealing with the new covenant and it’s body and blood of JC - and the other is not dealing with this foundational meal of Christianity at all.

A conservative approach! No way, the Eucharist meal in the Didache is not a conservative approach - it is a contradictory approach, it is an approach that sidelines the new covenant approach of ‘Paul'and gLuke.


(notice also that the ritual is reversed in the Didache - first the cup and then the bread.)

Ah, that’s a better way to go...a Jewish group or a Jewish influenced group. And if there was no historical gospel JC, if there is no historical crucified gospel JC, then what is being celebrated or remembered in the Eucharist meal in the Didacte is a historical figure that was not crucified. From a Jewish perspective, the binding to a cross, crucifixion and beheading of Antigonus in 37 b.c. is not an event to celebrate. Literally drinking blood is against Jewish thinking. If drinking symbolic blood, wine as the symbol of blood, was ever to become acceptable then such a symbolic act would have to be far removed from any historical, literal, crucified figure. (as, of course, is accomplished with a pseudo-historical JC figure).

1) The Didache Eucharist meal is not dealing with the new covenant of ‘Paul’ and the gLuke.

2) The Didache Eucharist meal is dealing with a different JC than that of ‘Paul” and the gospels.

3) ‘Paul’ speaks about another Jesus being preached:

[T2]2 Corinthians 11:3-4

But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
[/T2]

4)‘Paul’s Jesus is the crucified JC.

[T2]1 Corinthians 1:22-24

Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.[/T2]

5) A different JC - a JC different from the pseudo-historical gospel JC or different from 'Paul's' spiritual JC construct - is a historical figure that was deemed to be worthy of being remembered in the Didache Eucharist meal.

6) Antigonus ruled for a short 3 years. Philip the Tetrarch ruled, using the Josephan reference, for 37 years. Josephus says Philip moved around the countryside, attending to the needs of his people, with a few chosen friends. Philip died, again Josephus, in the 20th year of Tiberius, 33/34 c.e. It is far more likely that it is the long life of Philip that is being remembered in the Didache Eucharist meal.

7) The debate is over history, gospel pseudo-history and ‘Paul’s’ theological imaginings. The Didache Eucharist meal is indicating a community that has not gone the whole hog with either ‘Paul’ or the new covenant blood ritual, ie a community that has opted to stay the course with history. Ultimately, of course, pseudo-history won the day....the crucified savior and the Eucharist meal of symbolic body and blood becoming the foundation of the new covenant and of Christianity.

(Obviously, the Didache has suffered at the hands of later Christians, the trinity and the apocalyptic ending being likely elements for updating the storyline.)