Good_anger

I would like to ask the following questions:

1. Do you believe the Bible is the word of God? To what extent? Why?
2. Explain the alternate point of view (if you chose that the Bible is the word of God, then explain why some people believe the Bible is not the word of God) and what value that view has.

thegdin

No. God doesnt exist.

the bible, i believe, is just a 2000 year old game of chinese telephone. there are some good ideas in the bible but it certainly isnt devine.


edited cause i screwed up the quote thingy. hehe

Good_anger

You state simply that "God does not exist." So, I guess a list of follow up questions would be appropriate:

1. How did the world come into it's present state?
2. Do you believe there is credible evidence to overturn your claim that there is no God?
3. What do you mean by "2000 year old game of Chinese telephone?"
4. Do you believe that the Bible has some form of historical value?
5. Do you believe that Jesus existed? If so, do you believe he was the Messiah?
6. How do I know you are a credible source?

thegdin

i guess this depends on what you mean by world. if you mean my world as in my existence. i believe my parents got together one night about 33 and a half years ago. if you mean the human race, i believe the theory of evolution is the best idea going today. if you mean the planet itself and the universe let me know and we can start another thread cause there are a lot of theories. i like the big bang personally.

no, i dont believe there is any credible evidence to overturn my claim that there is no god.

i have read some stuff about the origins of the bible but i am nowhere near an expert. from what ive read the bible was written over a period of at least hundreds of years. but lets say for the sake of argument that it was written within 200 years of the death of jesus. assuming he lived, we'll get to that. the bible was translated into many languages by people who were apart of many different cultures at many different times. and all of this over centuries. well to the point. chinese telephone is a game where you line up several people. you whisper some info into the first persons ear. then they whisper it into the next persons ear etc etc. by the time you get to the end of the line there are changes, sometimes major, to the original info. hopefully you now understand my analogy between the bible and chinese telephone.

there might be some parts of the bible that roughly refer to actual occurances, but i am not aware of any off hand.

i believe its possible that a man named jesus might have existed. however, i am not aware of any reference to him other than the bible. if you know of any, id love to see it.

if youre questioning my credibility in reference to my "god doesnt exist" statement id say my credibility is irrelevant. my statement was based on the "fact" that there is absolutly no evidence pointing to the existence of any god much less the god of the bible.

Good_anger

Great. I appreciate all of your answers. but more answers, as they always say, leads to more questions...

1. Explain the big bang theory and why it is a credible source as a theory.
2. You say that you have read some "stuff" on the origins of the Bible. Please cite your references.
3. I really like your Chinese Telephone analogy, I'm going to need someone from the other side to refute that.
4. You say there "might" be parts of the Bible that are historically accurate. I need a more decisive answer than such. If you are not qualified to answer such a question, simply say so.
5. I've ran into many extrabiblical accounts of Jesus. Buy McDowell's book for more information on this subject (as I would just be plagarizing his work here).
6. How did you come to the conclusion that there is no God?

Vorkosigan

Good_anger, some of your questions are suited to this forum, but most are not. For personal questions about belief stances, try the General Religious discussions. For questions about the existence of God, try the forum by that name. For this forum, please confine yourself to questions pertaining to the history and archaeology of the Bible.

Additionally, Josh McDowell's books are considered a bit of a joke around here. I suggest you peruse these pages of responses so you don't get caught citing McDowell when he is clearly wrong. If you have individual questions about the Bible, anyone will be glad to answer, and we have posters from all points of view.

Vorkosigan
Moderator

Dean Anderson

I do not believe that the Bible is the word of God at all.

The reason for this is that I do not believe that Yahweh (the particular god that the Bible talks about) exists.

I think that people who believe that the Bible is the 'innerant word of God' usually do so because of cultural reasons. They are brought up in a society where the majority of people are Christian, and they accept that this is the 'default' state. They are taught that the Bible is the word of God by people they trust (parents, teachers, peers).

People are presented with modern day translations of the Bible and taught that they should simply accept those translations at face value. They are not taught to examine the older texts to see whether the modern translations are accurate or not. They are not taught to study what the Bible actually says. They are only taught to view the Bible through rose-tinted glasses.

They are taught the tenets of modern day Christianity first, and then told - often incorrectly - that that the Bible agrees with those tenets. Any place where the Bible doesn't agree with their preconcieved notions of what it should say are considered 'difficult' passages and need lots of 'interpretation' (i.e. special pleading and twisting) before they can be 'understood properly' (i.e. before they can be made to agree with said preconcieved notions).

They are also taught to keep themselves ignorant of the way the world works (physics, geology, biology, astronomy, palaeontology and archaeology all conflict with what the Bible says) so that they will still believe that the Bible tells the truth - in the face of all the evidence against that.

To summarise, people believe that the Bible is the word of God because they have been taught to - and have been taught not to question it or to examine its claims closely. Objectively examining anything closely is considered 'dangerous' to faith and is discouraged strongly.

Sven

This question was not directed at me but
(1) It fits into the forum, in contrast to most of your other questions.
(2) Having completed "The Bible unearthed" by Finkelstein and Silberman yesterday, I feel qualified to answer it.

Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: combined with archeology, yes. But not at face value.

Let me quote from the Epilogue: "Indeed, archeology's greatest contribution to our understanding of the Bible may be the realization that such small, relatively poor, and remote societies as late monarchic Judah and post-exilic Yehud could have produced the main outlines of this enduring epic in such a short period of time [let me insert: they give loads of evidence that great parts of the OT were composed in the 7th century BCE]. Such a realization is crucial, for it is only when we recognize when and why the ideas, images, and events described in the Bible came to be so skillfully woven together that we can at last begin to appreciate the true genius and continuing power of this single most influential literary and spiritual creation in the history of humanity."

Google and amazon are your friends. If this doesn't help, you can also ask over there in S&S.

Pentagram

Pervy Hobbit Fancier made most of my points for me but anyway...

1) I don't believe in God and I therefore, rather logically, don't believe that any part of the Bible is the word of him.
Btw, if he does exist, why did he write a book which so obviously contradicts what we can find out of the world with reason and science? Is he deliberately trying to trick us and why should I believe his words (the Bible) instead of his actions (the Universe)? Either way he is trying to decieve me...

2) Why do some people take the Bible at face value? Hey, why do some people find golf entertaining, why do some people poision themselves with drugs, why do some people listen to country music or hold racist views? In the end, I guess it comes down to some people being not too bright. *shrugs*

Chili

Please explain how you can say that "God does not exist" but the divine does exist for you be able to say that the bible "certainly isn't divine."