Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 06-12-2008, 10:18 PM

Much simpler would be to say that Jesus cannot sin because he is set free from the law because he fulfilled the law and was no longer a Jew as such . . . wherefore Pilate saw no fault in Jesus as MAN (repeated three times in John 18), while the Jews convicted him by THEIR law and their law only.

The law may have been inspired enough to turn Moses' hair white but it remains just a tool for the conviction of sin which is made against the steam of consciousness of the tribe that follows the law. The silly stuff they called sin has no bearing on reality but is good enough to convict the sinner wrong ("the law aroused in me all kinds of evil desire, etc)."

Chili · 06-13-2008, 05:56 AM

. . . and, of course, the purpose of this conviction is to set the inner man free by way of rebirth so that the old Joseph identity can be crucified to the sins of his world that actually become the cross that Jesus carried. It is upon this bundle of sins that the now apparent imposter must die and this will be how the illusory world of Joseph-the-Jew comes to an end and therefore must die and be burried to never be part of the new world again (Rev.21:1).
This then is when Galilee is left behind because that is not where the city of God is at except in Matthew to show that the NT is justified as a new vehicle for us to reach the end in a 'follow-me' (instead of 'worship me') kind of way.

Chili · 06-13-2008, 05:59 PM

. . . and, of course, the sins [of Joseph] that Jesus carried to Calvary is just opposite to the image of born again Christians soaring thru mid-heaven on their bundle of bible passage.

d-ray · 06-14-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Much simpler would be to say that Jesus cannot sin because he is set free from the law because he fulfilled the law and was no longer a Jew as such . . .

So would Jesus be free to murder, steal, commit adultery, etc., without sin? One would really hope that if he wishes us to behave ourselves--"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"--he would set a good example for us.

Chili · 06-14-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-ray

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Much simpler would be to say that Jesus cannot sin because he is set free from the law because he fulfilled the law and was no longer a Jew as such . . .

So would Jesus be free to murder, steal, commit adultery, etc., without sin? One would really hope that if he wishes us to behave ourselves--"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"--he would set a good example for us.

No because "do unto Ceasar" still holds and it clearly was Jewish Law that convicted him and not civil law.

In reality it was not a physical event to start with but the presentation of the effect that religous law can have on people . . . wherefore Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the law that is an remains the heart of each and every myth and therefore is its enforcement also the pulse of the mythology. It can be added here that indulgences are superficial stimulants that worked well for the church when they were in effect (I might add here that religion is a human endeavor much like a game we play to serve as a means to the [final] end).

Chili · 06-15-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Luke 18:19 (NIV)

Quote:

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Can Jesus be without sin and yet not be good?

Yes, becasue Jesus was not [fully] God as of yet but only the son of God and in the Gospels he was God-in-becoming. Not fully God = not fully Good.

The concept 'good' here has no opposite in bad which for Plato was the ultimate Form of the Good. Below that were the [daily] forms of the good that are created by the TOK in the confrontation between good and evil (the woman saw that the TOK was good for gaining things) wherein the primary premiss always originates from the Good and thus from God.

The same it true with love, truth, and power wherefore the omni's belong to God (after all).

braces_for_impact · 06-15-2008, 10:55 AM

I love theology, the ability to make stuff up as you go along, and actually watch it in progress is comedy relief.

Chili · 06-15-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousToo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Luke 18:19 (NIV)

Can Jesus be without sin and yet not be good?

The young ruler who asked a question, referred to Jesus as "good teacher". Jesus said " why do you call me good, only God is good. He saw Christ as a "good teacher" that would tell him how to inherit eternal life. The ruler must have trusted Jesus or why would he ask the question. Jesus referred him back to the ten commandments. When the young ruler said that he had observed the commandments all his life, Jesus said you lack one, sell all you have, give it to the poor and follow me. It made the ruler sad because he had to choose God at the cost of his riches. For whatever reason, the young ruler chose his sadness and riches. So my questions are :Was there a commandment which the young ruler didn't keep? Was Jesus merely a teacher?

Jesus was freeborn from Jerusalem on high and the young ruler was not.

It was because Joseph left his 'kingdom' and returned to his native mind to give an account of himself that Christ was born unto him and that is why Jesus told him to part from his possession. The young man had no choice in this because one cannot consciously make this decision.

Chili · 06-15-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braces_for_impact

I love theology, the ability to make stuff up as you go along, and actually watch it in progress is comedy relief.

In Catholicism they are called 'daily masses' that culminate in the Christ-mass which then is the final mass where original sin is forgiven. After this sin is no longer and thus he who is in Christ cannot sin (1Jn.3:9).

CuriousToo · 06-15-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

. . . and, of course, the sins [of Joseph] that Jesus carried to Calvary is just opposite to the image of born again Christians soaring thru mid-heaven on their bundle of bible passage.

Do you believe that once we are dead, that's it? Just curious. Believe me, your opinions and beliefs are just as important as mine. Hopefully, we can exchange without insult.

06-12-2008, 10:18 PM	#1
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	Chili digression on Did Jesus Sin? Much simpler would be to say that Jesus cannot sin because he is set free from the law because he fulfilled the law and was no longer a Jew as such . . . wherefore Pilate saw no fault in Jesus as MAN (repeated three times in John 18), while the Jews convicted him by THEIR law and their law only. The law may have been inspired enough to turn Moses' hair white but it remains just a tool for the conviction of sin which is made against the steam of consciousness of the tribe that follows the law. The silly stuff they called sin has no bearing on reality but is good enough to convict the sinner wrong ("the law aroused in me all kinds of evil desire, etc)."

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06-13-2008, 05:56 AM	#2
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	. . . and, of course, the purpose of this conviction is to set the inner man free by way of rebirth so that the old Joseph identity can be crucified to the sins of his world that actually become the cross that Jesus carried. It is upon this bundle of sins that the now apparent imposter must die and this will be how the illusory world of Joseph-the-Jew comes to an end and therefore must die and be burried to never be part of the new world again (Rev.21:1). This then is when Galilee is left behind because that is not where the city of God is at except in Matthew to show that the NT is justified as a new vehicle for us to reach the end in a 'follow-me' (instead of 'worship me') kind of way.

06-13-2008, 05:59 PM	#3
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	. . . and, of course, the sins [of Joseph] that Jesus carried to Calvary is just opposite to the image of born again Christians soaring thru mid-heaven on their bundle of bible passage.

06-15-2008, 10:55 AM	#7
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	I love theology, the ability to make stuff up as you go along, and actually watch it in progress is comedy relief.

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