eheffa

Tom Harpur in his book "The Pagan Christ (or via: amazon.co.uk)" (which I don't have) apparently claims that Horus was crucified between two thieves. I haven't read his argument but you might find some information there...

-evan

Toto

Harpur's book is not searchable on Amazon, but from reviews I gather that he gets his information from Kuhn, who got it from Massey.

I found this from a quick search: The Lost LightLater in that article there is a very confusing equation of the ointment used in embalming a body with crucifixion.

There is also Christ Crucified in EgyptI can only read a small amount of this without having to come up for air, but my hunch is that when Massey or Kuhn talk about Horus being crucified, that they are referring to their own metaphorical definition of spiritual crucifixion, not an actual crucifixion.

GakuseiDon

Yes, a "crucifixion" based on astrotheological principles, no doubt.

Most of those books that Acharya gives as reference to the Horus claims in Zeitgest are available from the State Library, so I will go there shortly and see what Massey et al are citing as primary sources.

More evidence of astrotheology according to Acharya. From her book "Christ Conspiracy", p 161:

"[Jesus] was crucified at the winter solstice between the "two thieves" of Sagittarius and Capricorn, who sapped his strength."

And, from her website here, this footnote:

"58 The Book Your Church; Graves; Taylor. The crucifixion of the godman between two "thieves" is an element of the Mythos, and is found in a number of sungod traditions that predate the Christian myth. "Anup on one side of Horus, and Aan on the other, are the two thieves on either hand of the Kamite Christ upon the cross at Easter." (Massey, MC) Anup and Aan are also the two "witnesses" of Horus, and are the predecessors of the two Johns who are Jesus's witnesses. (Churchward, Massey, ibid.)"

Finally, we have this from Freethinkaluva:

"Also, lets not forget that Horus & Seth or Set is how we get 'Horizon' & 'Sun-set'. Clearly astrotheological."

Fans of Acharya sometimes say that "Acharya didn't make it up!", even though the criticism is that she uncritically uses old sources rather than she made it all up. Once I have got the primary sources from Massey and others, I'll respond in this thread. Hopefully it will force her fans to address the reliability of her sources, rather than the stock defence of "she didn't make it up!" As Acharya herself writes:

... the assertion that "not a single biblical scholar" will touch Massey is absurd. Tom Harpur, for one, is most definitely a biblical scholar, and he certainly endorses Massey. Naturally, the harpur-ies have attacked him relentlessly, but they have not proved Massey wrong. Most of the biblical scholars are completely unaware of Gerald Massey and, in fact, know next to nothing about mythology in the first place. Most biblical scholars are therefore entirely unqualified to be making commentary or judgment about Gerald Massey's work at all...

When Christian apologists and other detractors actually study the works of the brilliant and erudite Gerald Massey - and can prove their study with intelligent remarks and, if possible, refutations - then I will take notice of their opinions. Until then, not.

Jeffrey Gibson

Leaving aside the question begging claim that Biblical scholars know nothing of mythology, it's to be noted that AS is herself neither a biblical scholar, nor an expert in mythology, nor, most importantly, an Egyptologist. So -- by her own criteria of who is and is not competent to evaluate Massey -- she is telling us that we should not take seriously her evaluations of the man and his work and his claims.

Jeffrey

Dave31

And why exactly should anyone ever listen to anything you have to say Jeffrey Gibson?

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/zeitgeist.html

ApostateAbe

Dave31, you seem to have ignored the point of Acharya S's apparent double standard. She should not be attacking others for their lack of qualifications if she does not measure up herself. Her lack of relevant credentials does not mean she is wrong. It means that she should minimize her ad hominem arguments.

Robert M. Schock, Ph.D. is an interesting character. I went over to the Amazon page on his book, Voyages of the Pyramid Builders: The True Origins of the Pyramids from Lost Egypt to Ancient America (or via: amazon.co.uk), and I read the Editorial Reviews.

From Publishers Weekly
The great pyramids of Egypt provide a wonderful glimpse of the artistry, skill and imagination of the ancient world. But pyramids can be found in India, China, Peru, Bolivia, Mexico and Ireland. In this provocative book, geologist Schoch (noted for his work in redating the Sphinx, which was recounted in his Voices of the Rocks) wonders how so many diverse cultures built such similar structures with similar purposes. Using geological, linguistic and geographical evidence, he contends that a protocivilization of pyramid-building peoples was driven out of its homeland, the Sundaland, which geologists believe connected Southeast Asia with Indonesia, by a rise in sea level caused by comet activity between 6000 and 4000 B.C. Fleeing their homeland, these peoples took their knowledge of pyramid building with them into Sumeria, Mesopotamia, Egypt, China and Peru. Schoch hypothesizes that the pyramids were built to reach into the skies and to penetrate the mystery of the heavens, source of catastrophe. Schoch also asserts that the pyramids point to unity and symbolize the deep concerns shared by all humans. Schoch builds his engrossing case on geological details of the pyramid sites he has examined around the world. In the end, however, even he admits his evidence of a Sundaland protocivilization is speculative. As controversial as this book is bound to be, Schoch's evocation of the pyramids forcefully reminds us of their enduring power as monuments to the spirit of human creativity. 16 pages of color photos not seen by PW.
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Book Description
Is it a mere coincidence that pyramids are found across our globe? Did cultures ranging across vast spaces in geography and time, such as the ancient Egyptians; early Buddhists; the Maya, Inca, Toltec, and Aztec civilizations of the Americas; the Celts of the British Isles; and even the Mississippi Indians of pre-Columbian Illinois, simply dream the same dreams and envision the same structures?

Scientist and tenured university professor Robert M. Schoch-one of the world's preeminent geologists in recasting the date of the Great Sphinx-believes otherwise. In this dramatic and meticulously reasoned book, Schoch, like anthropologist Thor Heyerdahl in his classic Kon-Tiki, argues that ancient cultures traveled great distances by sea. Indeed, he believes that primeval sailors traveled from the Eastern continent, primarily Southeast Asia, and spread the idea of pyramids across the Earth, involving the human species in a far greater degree of contact and exchange than experts have previously thought possible.

He seems to be of the same stock as Acharya S. He notices similarities in the world's pyramids that would seem explainable to a normal person by the fact that pyramids are the most stable basic symmetrical rectangular-base structures, but he takes it as evidence that ancient peoples must have shared their ideas through some kind of far-fetched means. I bet it fits right in with the theories of Acharya S, since she needs an explanation for how the god-men myths got from Asia to the Americas. Must have been that sea-level rise through the comet's gravitational effect.

Solitary Man

I think Jeffrey's doctorate at Oxford beats anything you or Acharya S. have to offer, Dave. Why in the world should anyone listen to you about who should listen to Jeffrey?

Dave31

Wrong as per usual A.Abe. what about the comment brought in from Acharya's F.A.Q. is incorrect? Where's the ad hom? Rather, she was addressing an ad hom. I guess you didn't pick up on that as is typical of your selective perception from what I've observed of you here.

I see you're also trying to find whatever dirt you can muster up on Dr. Schoch as well. You couldn't stop yourself from making some derogatory comment at the end there could you. That's most all ever I see from folks here at IIDB like yourself (you haven't read any of Acharya's works including this one either but you're always one of the first to dive in on the pile on taking stabs at every opportunity as it seem to be the modus vivendi at IIDB). And then the folks at IIDB wonder why nobody wants to be an atheist. Same with Solitary Man. I guess S.man pretends not to be aware of what students think of Gibson. S.man thinks more of Gibson's doctorate at Oxford than do Gibson's students as made clear in their statements. Where are Jeffrey Gibson's books which I'm sure are inerrant and interesting at the same time.

Antipope Innocent II

You know, if you were trying to parody people like "Acharya" you couldn't make garbage like the quote above up. Comedy gold. Muddle-headed gibberish raised to the level of art form.

Birdland

Since you cited Schoch as endorsing the book, the question of whether or not he is a reliable authority in this area is relevant.