Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 06-21-2007, 08:50 PM

I look forward to reading comments from readers.

the Radio Star · 07-12-2007, 02:40 PM

You might be interested in reading the Gospel of Thomas.

Toto · 07-12-2007, 03:41 PM

According to the Jesus Seminar, about 18%.

Cege · 07-12-2007, 03:53 PM

If you're willing to accept blind faith as a basis, I'd wager 100%.

If not, 18% from the Jesus Seminar's reckoning seems fair.

stuart shepherd · 07-13-2007, 06:42 PM

In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus uses the expression ""The Kingdom of Heaven"" 31 times. This expression is not found in any other book of the Bible.
But in the other gospels when Jesus is speaking of the same incidents as in Matthew, Jesus uses the expression "The Kingdom of God""

So we have to wonder ....Did Jesus actually say...""Kingdom of Heaven"" or did he say...""Kingdom of God""???

stuart shepherd

khalimirov · 07-13-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart shepherd

In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus uses the expression ""The Kingdom of Heaven"" 31 times. This expression is not found in any other book of the Bible.
But in the other gospels when Jesus is speaking of the same incidents as in Matthew, Jesus uses the expression "The Kingdom of God""

So we have to wonder ....Did Jesus actually say...""Kingdom of Heaven"" or did he say...""Kingdom of God""???

stuart shepherd

Why is that so important?

breathilizer · 07-13-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalimirov

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart shepherd

In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus uses the expression ""The Kingdom of Heaven"" 31 times. This expression is not found in any other book of the Bible.
But in the other gospels when Jesus is speaking of the same incidents as in Matthew, Jesus uses the expression "The Kingdom of God""

So we have to wonder ....Did Jesus actually say...""Kingdom of Heaven"" or did he say...""Kingdom of God""???

stuart shepherd

Why is that so important?

It's not important at all unless you happen to think the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

spamandham · 07-13-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

According to the Jesus Seminar, about 18%.

If I recall correctly, this is an upper bound based on stripping away the other 82%, not an estimate of liklihood.

If the Jesus Seminar were not de-Funked, the number might have eventually reached 0.

I'm anxious to see what CFI's "The Jesus Project" comes up with.

Johnny Skeptic · 07-14-2007, 05:57 AM

One reason why it is so important what Jesus actually said is because the Resurrection on its own does not even come close to providing a rational basis for Christianity. That is because the ability to rise from the dead is only about power, not about character. If Jesus rose from the dead for reasons other than what the New Testament claims, Christianity is obviously fraudulent. I challenge Christians to reasonably prove that Jesus actually said that he was one with God, that he would rise from the dead, and that he would die and rise from the dead in order to save people from their sins.

Gracchus · 07-14-2007, 06:19 AM

How certain is it that Hera started the Trojan war because she was pissed at losing a beauty pageant?

06-21-2007, 08:50 PM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	How certain is it that Jesus said what the New Testament says that he said? I look forward to reading comments from readers.

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07-12-2007, 02:40 PM	#2
the Radio Star Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IL Posts: 978	You might be interested in reading the Gospel of Thomas.

07-12-2007, 03:41 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	According to the Jesus Seminar, about 18%.

07-12-2007, 03:53 PM	#4
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	If you're willing to accept blind faith as a basis, I'd wager 100%. If not, 18% from the Jesus Seminar's reckoning seems fair.

07-13-2007, 06:42 PM	#5
stuart shepherd Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 315	In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus uses the expression ""The Kingdom of Heaven"" 31 times. This expression is not found in any other book of the Bible. But in the other gospels when Jesus is speaking of the same incidents as in Matthew, Jesus uses the expression "The Kingdom of God"" So we have to wonder ....Did Jesus actually say...""Kingdom of Heaven"" or did he say...""Kingdom of God""??? stuart shepherd

07-14-2007, 05:57 AM	#9
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	One reason why it is so important what Jesus actually said is because the Resurrection on its own does not even come close to providing a rational basis for Christianity. That is because the ability to rise from the dead is only about power, not about character. If Jesus rose from the dead for reasons other than what the New Testament claims, Christianity is obviously fraudulent. I challenge Christians to reasonably prove that Jesus actually said that he was one with God, that he would rise from the dead, and that he would die and rise from the dead in order to save people from their sins.

07-14-2007, 06:19 AM	#10
Gracchus Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: California Posts: 359	How certain is it that Hera started the Trojan war because she was pissed at losing a beauty pageant?

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