rizdek

While viewing the Bible passages referenced in another thread on sacrifice of firstborn, I came across this scripture in 1 Samuel 19:

I'm not particularly concerned if the passage is an account of an actual event or just part of a myth, but am wondering what it means when it says "and they also prophesied." It's almost as if the enemies were somehow brainwashed or hypnotized or something when they got close to the group of prophets doing whatever it is that prophets do.

Iskander

This passage is a historical account of the rise of the monarchy in biblical Israel and describes the conflict between the king and the ‘church’.

The conflict between the papacy and the emperor Barbarossa is a good example from European history. There are many such examples of conflict in the history of every civilisation. Contemporary discussions on the separation of church and government are of the same nature.

The link that follows explains the historical background. Samuel is the main prophet (head of the church) and when the king becomes a junior prophet he is submitting to the power of the church as the emperor Frederick Barbarossa submitted to the pope
http://www.moshereiss.org/articles/06_samuel.htm

Frederick Barbarossa :Is Barbarossa too among the prophets?

http://www.mystudios.com/artgallery/...arch-1177.html

rizdek

Sorry, I read what you linked, but didn't see anything explaining what the phrase "and they also prophesied" means in that context. As I said, it sounds like they were hypnotized or something.

DCHindley

I am a little hesitant to accept too literally the stories about David & Samuel, as the legendary aspect about them seems larger than the real people involved. Still, in the time of the storyteller, there seems to have been a belief that in Samuel & David's time there were "prophets" who would get filled with God's spirit, probably dancing like a dervish in the process. I am not sure on what basis this is maintained, other than by comparison with practices of nearby cultures.

DCH

Minimalist

What it probably means is that "priests" wrote the book and always tried to make themselves look good while doing so. How else to maintain their power over the dolts?

storytime

"and they also prophesied", after being invited to partake in the substance of choice, whereof they would also see things. Samuel was a "seer of things", in the times before men were called prophets and priests.

What was the stuff David sniffed? What was Thumin and Cuming or whatever it was called? David seemed to need this stuff before he talked to the lord in his drug induced euphoria.

Iskander

What might this mean? [Prophesy in 1 Samuel 19]

“They also prophesied, “means they joined the opposing camp; the king’s men refusal to obey his orders and their willingness to take orders from the clerical party.

In the chapters that describe the election of the king there appear to be at least two strands of tradition. The first (1 Samuel: 9:1-10) represents Saul as god’s instrument of deliverance. The other strand( 1 Samuel 8:10-17), however, represents the people’s desire for a king as a rejection of god’s authority.

During the period of the Judges god was viewed as the supreme leader, but after a severe defeat the Ark was captured, its shrine destroyed and the Israelite army overwhelmed.. This defeat crushed the people's confidence in the leadership of Samuel who was the chief of the priests and prophets (seer). The Israelites felt they needed political changes and chose to have a king.
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...23&version=MSG

1 Samuel 19:20-23 (The Message)
19-20 Saul was told, "David's at Naioth in Ramah." He immediately sent his men to capture him. They saw a band of prophets prophesying with Samuel presiding over them. Before they knew it, the Spirit of God was on them, too, and they were ranting and raving right along with the prophets!
21 That was reported back to Saul, and he dispatched more men. They, too, were soon prophesying. So Saul tried a third time—a third set of men—and they ended up mindlessly raving as well!
22 Fed up, Saul went to Ramah himself. He came to the big cistern at Secu and inquired, "Where are Samuel and David?"
A bystander said, "Over at Naioth in Ramah."
23-24 As he headed out for Naioth in Ramah, the Spirit of God was on him, too. All the way to Naioth he was caught up in a babbling trance! He ripped off his clothes and lay there rambling gibberish before Samuel for a day and a night, stretched out naked. People are still talking about it: "Saul among the prophets! Who would have guessed?"

Diogenes the Cynic

The "prophesying" most probably refers to some kind of ecstatic state of consciousness. Everyone who comes to the party gets caught up in it. The author attributes this the the Holy Spirit.

rizdek

Thanks, that makes sense, and thanks to Iskander for:

As someone else pointed out, I'm guessing that in reality, they had some pretty good $h!t and that's where they got their prophecies. Perhaps when the enemy got close they "got a whiff" so to speak.