Toto

The Pre-Nicene New Testament can be pre-ordered on Amazon.

From Robert Price's list:

Roger Pearse

Those who have read (e.g.) Irenaeus, Tertullian and Eusebius' HE will certainly have learned something from the above. If that quote really represents the opinion of Dr. Price, presented as a professional opinion -- doesn't he hold some teaching post somewhere? -- then need we pay any further attention to anything that he has to say?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Julian

The ad blurbs are generally not written by the authors themselves. I find that Dr. Price is generally worth paying attention to, and although he is what some would call a 'liberal' scholar he cannot be accused of being radical.

Julian

Johnny Skeptic

How utterly absurd. Roger Pearse is not in the least bit concerned with the credentials of ANY skeptic, including Dr. Elaine Pagels, who has impressive academic credentials.

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/

After early involvement in a fundamentalist Baptist church, [Robert Price] went on to become a leader in the Montclair State College chapter of the Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship. Having developed a keen interest in apologetics (the defense of the faith on intellectual grounds), Bob went on to enroll at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, where he received an MTS degree in New Testament. Billy Graham was the commencement speaker.

It was during this period, 1977-78, however, that Bob began to reassess his faith, deciding at length that traditional Christianity simply did not have either the historical credentials or the intellectual cogency its defenders claimed for it. Embarking on a wide program of reading religious thinkers and theologians from other traditions, as well as the sociology, anthropology, and psychology of religion, he soon considered himself a theological liberal in the camp of Paul Tillich. He received the Ph.D. degree in systematic theology from Drew University in 1981.

After some years teaching in the religious studies department of Mount Olive College in North Carolina, Price returned to New Jersey to pastor First Baptist Church of Montclair, the first pastorate, many years before, of liberal preacher Harry Emerson Fosdick. Price soon enrolled in a second doctoral program at Drew, receiving the Ph.D. in New Testament in 1993. These studies, together with his encounter with the writings of Don Cupitt, Jacques Derrida, and the New Testament critics of the Nineteenth Century, rapidly eroded his liberal Christian stance, and Price resigned his pastorate in 1994. A brief flirtation with Unitarian Universalism disenchanted him even with this liberal extreme of institutional religion. For six years Bob and Carol led a living room church called The Grail. Now, back in North Carolina, he attends the Episcopal Church and keeps his mouth shut.

Robert M. Price is Professor of Biblical Criticism at the Center for Inquiry Institute as well as the editor of The Journal of Higher Criticism. His books include Beyond Born Again, The Widow Traditions in Luke-Acts: A Feminist-Critical Scrutiny, Deconstructing Jesus, and The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man. Forthcoming titles are The Crisis of Biblical Authority, Jesus Christ Superstar: A Redactional Study of a Modern Gospel, The Da Vinci Controversy and The Amazing Colossal Apostle.

Johnny: Suffice it to say that Dr. Price's academic credentials entitle him to be considered a scholarly source.

Roger Pearse is quite scholarly, and in the past few decades, Christians such as Gary Habermas, William Lane Craig, J.P. Moreland, and N.T. Wright, have refined Bible apologetics to the point where many lay Christians have concluded that they can handle anything that skeptics throw at them. However, no amount of scholarship can adequately deal with the topic of the nature of God. 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 say "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." I challenge Christians to produce evidence that God is not an evil God who is masquerading as a good God and plans to send everyone to hell.

Some time ago, Roger and I had the following exchange at the Theology Web:

Johnny: While Christians have a perceived vested interest in their opinions, namely the coercive influences of heaven and hell, skeptics are perfectly free to honestly follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Roger: This jeer -- it is no more, since it must apply to anyone who holds any position seriously -- is only possible because most skeptics do not know what their own religious position is.

Johnny: I most certainly know what my religious position is. I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 35 years.

Roger: But since skeptics invariably are conformists to some subset of the menu of values and ideas fashionable in any given age -- a menu that came into being irrational and will disappear when it ceases to be fashionable -- they are no more free to follow the evidence than anyone else.

Johnny: Oh but they are. Christians believe that if they become skeptics and it eventually turns out that the Bible is true, they will spend eternity in hell. On the other hand, skeptics believe that if they become Christians and it eventually turns out that they will become dust in the ground, they will be no worse off than they were before they became Christians.

I most certainly am not a conformist. I am an agnostic, and I have problems with some of evolutionary theory. Spontaneous generation does not seem likely to me, and mutation theory much less likely.

Roger: It would be nice to encounter someone calling himself a skeptic who was, well, skeptical. These words of yourself are simply a repetition of the words of others, said over the last hundred years. Why not think for yourself?

Johnny: In this particular case, my arguments are my own. Even if I copied them from someone else, all that matters is whether or not the arguments make sense.

End of quotes.

As far as I know, Roger did not reply to my arguments. I request that he do so now, in a new thread if he wishes.

Roger Pearse

No-one is responsible for what a publisher's blurb-writer might choose to write. I have some US editions of Roger Zelazny's Amber series where the blurb bears no relation to the actual story at all, but instead is something out of the blurbwriters brain.

One reason why I never paid any attention to the humanities for many years (my degree is in chemistry) was that I kept finding instances in casual reading of their books where scholars told stories that I knew were contradicted explicitly by the ancient historical record. It was only when I found some evidence of objectivity in the profession that I was able to take any of it seriously.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Amaleq13

[tangent]FABULOUS SERIES!!!! My all-time favorite! (And the authorized prequel series by Betancourt aren't bad either)[/tangent]

Julian

I have three different editions of the Amber series and never read the blurbs.
I have several of his books and have great respect for him even though I don't always agree with him. Here is online example of some of his work: http://www.depts.drew.edu/jhc/rp1cor15.html

Julian

Julian

I only liked (loved, actually!) the original five books, hated the ones that followed although I do not know about this prequel you mention.

In order for this derail not to be split out I will here add a pertinent comment: Robert Price's Official Home Page

Julian

Roger Pearse

They're good, aren't they? Zelazny was a real writer. I too will go riding with Vinta Bayle in the wine country, east of Amber, where time has no power ...

I have three of the Bettancourt prequels. They're OK, and easy to read, but not a patch on the real thing.

I was very sorry when RZ passed on... I had hoped he would write another 'Madwand' novel.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse

The first four were good; the fifth weak. The first of the next 5 was good, and then the next 4 not so good. This happens a lot in sequel series, I notice.

I wish that Robert Price would write *interesting* fiction!

All the best,

Roger Pearse