Richard Carrier

Richard Carrier will be on TV against William Lane Craig on the whether Jesus rose from the dead. Lee Strobel hosts. On PAX this Saturday, October 2 at 10pm (9pm central and mountain time). More information at: www.faithunderfire.com.

It will only be a 14 minute segment and neither of us got in all the points we wanted to make. I didn't suck. But it wasn't my best, either. Not enough time and we kept cutting each other off. But it may be interesting at the very least to see this discussed on national TV.

doubtingthomas

I'd love to see this. Unfortunately I don't get PAX at my dorm so I have no way to see the show currently. Any chance that someone might bother to record it and put it online for those of us who don't get PAX?

Speedkill

Thankfully, my dorm does. Along with a bunch of other religious channels. It's kinda weird. If you're really desparate I can make a crappy audio recording.

BuffaloBill

I made a point of watching it. It was my first opportunity to see either Carrier or Craig, two men I've heard a good deal about. The editing apparently cut out most of the interruptions Carrier alluded to. I thought Carrier kept Craig on the defensive throughout, and Strobel at one point held Craig's feet to the fire to respond to a specific point.

A very nice job by Carrier, I think, and he came across as confident to boot.

Speedkill

Carrier did a good job, but the segment was really short, so a bit disappointing.

The show really didn't impress me, but looking at upcoming shows it appears there could be some interesting debates.

Richard Carrier

FYI, I've posted my own observations here:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...38#post1875938

Matthew_Green

Richard,

I was pleased to see you debate Bill Craig. In fact, I taped the whole session. I thought that Strobel did a fair job moderating the debate. I think you were at your strongest when you pointed out Craig's ad hominem by insinuating that you were closed-minded (How does he really know that?) Very predictably, Craig brought up his usual arguments against "group visions" of Jesus to his disciples (I prefer to call them "collective delusions" as Bible scholar Michael Goulder does; this is what would explain the alleged appearance of the "Virgin Mary" at Fatima and other places to a mass of people). Craig argued that "visions" (as opposed to geniune supernatural appearances of a risen Jesus) cannot account for the empty tomb or the diversity of appearances.

I think that probably the weakest point in your case was how you led into the case for a "spiritual resurrection" after Stroble asked if Craig would agree that finding the bones of Jesus would refute the resurrection and hence the Christian faith. If I recall correctly, I think you stated that if the bones were found the "holy spirit" might lead you to conclude that Christ rose in a "spiritual body". (I'm hoping I understood you right). The way you worded it made it sound as though Christianity might still be salvageable with a belief in a "spiritual resurrection" if the physical resurrection was refuted.

My honest opinion- I think a better way to argue would've been to say that we wouldn't need to wait around for such a enormously improbable scenario (how would anyone be able to prove that any corpse or bones were that of Jesus??) and, instead, that the gospel narratives contradict 1st Corinthians 15 when the latter is better understood as implying a "spiritual resurrection" and a spiritual body (one lacking flesh as opposed to the gospels which have a raised body containing flesh). It can be argued that no deity would inspire a religion containing such a theological contradiction between the gospels and 1st Corinthians 15.

Matt

SkepticBoyLee

I just saw thispost. Will this program repeat?

Toto

Check the website for the schedule. There should be a transcript at some point.

If you are interested in the issue, I recommend Carrier's DVD of his debate with Greg Licoma, although Licoma is no William Lane Craig. There are other debates here.

SkepticBoyLee

I checked the website (the programs website) was not helpful.

We need a atheist, skeptic, agnotstic, freethinker network dude. That would....friggin RULE.


Thanks for the links to the debate DVDs. Im thinking about purchasing one.