Sheshbazzar

Who is satan and what is his real name.

An intriguing statement, worthy of some consideration, given the historical record of what manner of "fruits" Christianity has long been bringing forth in and under their "name" of "Jesus Christ".

What name did that Jewish maiden actually give to her first born son?
Some will say this name, and some will say that name, and most will say that "it dosen't make any difference".
Yet,Would it make any difference?
Let's see, we have here the long awaited Jewish "Messiah", whom the NT tells us, was given a certain particular name, one that was from the first dictated from Heaven, and announced by an angel.
As the story develops, the concept of an "anti"-messiah, The "Satan" is introduced, that "anti-" one whom under another name would succeed in the deceiving of "the whole world";

"13. For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of the Messiah.

14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
[2 Cr. 13-15]
While there may not have been a physical "Messiah" who actually did and said all those things that are written within "The (tampered with) New Testament", history, and current "Christian" culture evidence that The anti-messiah is named "Jesus Christ", and his ministering minions are real, present, and quite successful fulfilling their role in foisting off their form of false religion and religious deception upon the whole world.

XKV8R

say what?? i like bread too.

robto

Actually, the Christians interpreted certain OT passages as referring to the devil (Satan). Just as they interpreted other OT passages as referring to Jesus. This sort of allegorical interpretation was common in Jewish writing of the time.

Another must-read is Neil Forsyth's The Old Enemy (or via: amazon.co.uk). He traces connections between ancient Judaism and the Canaanite/Mesopotamian combat myth. The roots of Satan lie very deep.

John Kesler

In the case of Isaiah 14, I think that the interpretation that Satan is in view is valid--from a Christian standpoint--since Jesus' words in Luke 10 have definite allusions to Isaiah 14. Compare:

XKV8R

i'd have to disagree. while early xns may have sought a parallel, the isa 14 reference is not a reference to 'satan,' but to a foreign king that exiled israel. the context makes this reference one of an earthly king.

i would agree that the concept of sheol evolved into the notion of hades, but not until late. however, the luke 10 passage is either an interpolation or an inner-biblical allusion that employs known language to express a new idea. it's the equivalent to the fundamentalist mantra of 'saying bible things in bible ways.'

John Kesler

I never said that it doesn't. The text explicitly says in Isaiah 14:4, "you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon..." The issue is what Jesus thought about the passage, and clearly he alludes to Isaiah 14 in his condemnation of Capernaum, which I highlighted in green, and Satan (in red). Jesus has infused a passage about the king of Babylon with greater theological importance.

spin

You're trying to turn the narrative into history. If Jesus existed and if he said those words then you might have a case, but they are two insurmountable hurdles for such a theory. The best you can hope for is that by the time of the writing of that part of Lk the Isaiah passage had been decontextualized and its original significance lost, allowing for an eisegetical reinterpretation. It might have been reinterpreted long before the writer's time but you have no apparent criteria for dating it significantly earlier. And the writing of Lk may have been finalized any time up to a generation before Irenaeus was writing.


spin

Ben C Smith

I do not think John Kesler is doing anything of the kind. I think he is trying to explain why some Christians feel justified in turning Lucifer into one of the names of Satan.

He wrote:

Feel free to correct me on this one, John, but it sounds like you are just looking (momentarily) at the matter from a different point of view. If you felt, like many Christians do, compelled to interpret scripture with scripture, you might very well feel compelled to equate Lucifer and Satan. Is that what you are saying?

(On a side note, the adjective Christian is probably too broad here. I do not think all Christians do this by definition, as it were, though I agree that many do.)

Ben.

John Kesler

Yes.

Sheshbazzar

Who is Satan? That concealed yet compelling deceiver, that works a lie, and is the father of all lies, who with subtle reasoning's persuades men to accept his contrived falsehoods as truths being worthy to die for.

What is his real name? In various times and places he has used whatever alias as might be most effective in the influencing of men, and serve to place his servants in charge. Wherever little lies and fables are cultivated, and then worshipped, calamity, persecutions, destruction, war and death always follow.

Think of the name of any gods, of any religions, or governments, or powers, or of men who have served them, and have lied or willingly continued, or enforced a lie in service of a lie, an invisible, yet embodied and effective power was at work within these men. And always, sooner or latter their plantings and cultivations bear the bitter and evil fruit.

Wherever, whenever, and under whatever "name" a falsehood becomes idolized, idealised, and worshipped to the detriment of whomsoever will not conform to that lie,
The "Satan", The "Adversary" That old Serpent is effectively working his will.

In a different setting, and place I would name him by another name, but in the context of this forum, I do not hesitate to declare that The Satan's name is that most popular name in which lies are most idolized, "Jesus Christ", or either "Jesus" or "Christ" for short. (and any other alias that might be substituted with the same or similar string of fables and lies, one faction of liars being no better than another, nor an altered or different "name" releaving the burden of lies.)

The name of Satan is "Jesus Christ", and "Jesus Christ" IS Satan idolized.
The seduced will cry "blasphemy!", but the true blasphemy is that name which they adore, serve and idolize in an opposition to all that is true.