Crucifiction

Back when I was a Fundie, the Book of Revelation used to be my favorite book in the Bible. At the time I thought I liked it because Jesus returned in it, but now I realize I liked it for the same reason I like all those horror movies I watch.

Now, I know that Christian legend holds that Saint John wrote the book on the island of Patmos sometime in the latter have ot the first century. However, is there any real historic evidence that supports this claim? How did the letter get from the {presumably deserted} isle of Patmor to the churches? Are there any clues that might pinpoint the exact author of the book?

Steven Avery

While I cannot answer your transmission question, or even much about the authorship clues, I do want to point out that there is a significant section of Christian scholarship that dates Revelation to before A.D. 70. They do quite a respectable job of countering the normal arguments for dating around 95, having to do with a comment, perhaps by Ireneaus, that is generally thought to refer to the Diocleatian persecutions. The preteristarchive site probably has a bunch of book and article references on this.

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/

gregor

If memory serves, Burton Mack argues that an authorship during Domitian's reign (circa. 81-96) is not as compelling as authorship during Trajan's time (@ 110CE).


As always - check Peter's Early Christian Writings for a survey.

Crucifiction

I see.

The thing is, I'm very much a layman when it comes to Biblical history. I know almost nothing about it. However, I have seen claims that say that the John who wrote the Book of Revelation wasn't the apostle John, but rather was an early Christian martyr of the same name; I was wondering what people's opinion on the subject were.

judge

Here is a link arguing for a pre 70 a.d. time of authorship.

Diogenes the Cynic

The author is unknown but it's generally believed to have been written during the reign of Domitian around 96 CE. It may have originally been a purely Jewish apocalypse redacted into a Christian one.

offa

Revelation was written in A.D. 50 and at a location other than Patmos.

When I answer a telephone call and am asked the question, "what are you doing?". Obviously I am talking on the telephone so the question is oxymoronic. I answer, "I am riding my bicycle over the 'Sea of Tranquilty'".

Obviously I am not doing that because there are no telephones on the moon, however, my audience really believes I am in a tranquil state. Now, Moses was never in Egypt, Jesus was never in Galilee, Josephus was never in Galilee, Abraham was never in Damascus, Syria. Please do not get hung up on locations.

offa

darstec

The Ireneaus reference to Diocleatian was inaccurate. It was a reference to Nero that was misunderstood to be a reference to Diocleatian. I'm almost positive you have participated in threads where this was recently discussed.

Besides that, Revelation seems to portray the eruption of Vesuvius with an almost birdseye view, though from a safer distance. Compare Revelation with Pliny's description of the erruption.

Revelation also seems to be a retelling of the tales of Joshua in the format of a Greek Comedy play (which were actually rather tragic) to symbolize the overthrow of Rome.

Steven Avery

My error, which I realized after posting, was putting Diocletian instead of Domitian.. Diocletian is much later.

The Nero idea is the pre-70 AD idea, which I said is a "respectable job of countering the normal arguments for dating around 95" (one interpretation of Ireneaus/Domitian). I think we are generally in agreement, favoring the early pre-70 AD date.

I'll look at the Vesuvius interp, the overthrow of Rome conception would fit more of a historicist interp of Revelation.

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/

Diogenes the Cynic

The author knows Domitian. It's late 90's.

Moreover, Irenaeus said it was from the reign of Domitian.