Onias

Please do not resort to ad hominem attacks that violate the rules of this forum.

semiopen

Your explanation of Jewish persecution is almost offensive in its silliness.

Of course Shesh is far from Jewish.

The sages are treated with respect by modern Jews. Ramban, who you quote as one of your buddies, was also a sage but not quite up to Rashi's stature. That doesn't mean that anything they said was correct.

To get back to the thread, let me give you my interpretation about what has happened.

You start a disingenuous discussion about Gen 15:6 even though your mind is made up. The translation issue is demonstrated to be dubious, debatable at best. Further discussion on the topic has further weakened your position. Now you are flailing about.

Note the quality of the work of the modern Jewish scholars that I have quoted here. Note how embarrassingly awful your supporting link is by comparison.

Onias

The mainstream is not always correct. It was once a mainstream belief that the earth was the center of the universe.

sotto voce

And with that 'accountancy', the very same verb and adjective are used as are found with Abram. So there is example for God accounting man righteous, but not vice versa. Not yet, anyway. Now will you admit that, if this Genesis verse qualifies, there is not one other occasion in all the Bible where this combination of verb and adjective are found where man accounts God righteous? Or do you reckon to keep searching?

And do keep off the specious/amateur red herrings. They leave a very bad taste.

Onias

You continue to miss the point. The issue has never been that there are times when God imputes righteoussness to humans or visa versa. Both occur. But in Genesis, the controversy is in the 2nd phrase: who imputed righteousness to whom? Please get back on the right track, sir. And please stop with your unscholarly insults that violate the rules of this forum.

sotto voce

The date is totally irrelevant! The Roman take was necessarily always against justification by faith, from the start; and current Jews are certainly not in their power. As a Catholic, you know that very well.

We may now accept that justification by faith is the teaching supported here.

Onias

I am certainly not a Catholic but a Jew.

sotto voce

I continue to press your point. You do not seem to want to discuss it any more. Because you realise that it is a lost cause?

Onias, this argument is fatuous, even to a schoolchild, for reasons that I have not even touched on, because there is no rationality to be seen thus far. And if we are really to think that wars have been fought over a mere mistranslation, and this has just been discovered on the internet, you must think we are quite doo-lally.

Onias

Stop the ad hominem attacks! Argue with my points in a specific way, but do not make personal attacks that violate the rules of this forum.

sotto voce

There is agreement that there is no certain instance of man accounting God righteous, or there is not. Suit yourself.