Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Enda80 · 08-20-2004, 10:22 PM

Did they really stone women in Palestine as late as the First Century CE? If so, did other cultures of that time (China, Rome, Japan) stone women, too?

Toto · 08-20-2004, 10:37 PM

Why does this surprize you? There are women being stoned today in fundamentalist countries for adultery - or at least the penalty is available. As with many harsh penalties, it probably was not used often, but it was available to frighten people.

If the Bible is accurate in its portrayal of social mores, Jesus stopped a stoning by saying that whoever was without sin should cast the first stone. This would show that stoning was possible, but normal people recoiled at the practice and found a way around it.

Enda80 · 08-20-2004, 11:02 PM

"If the Bible is accurate in its portrayal of social mores....." that is the problem. I was thinking that the possibility existed that the Gospel writers were biased in the way that they depicted the practices of rival religious groups.

The Gospels are not very reliable in the way they depict culture in Palestine. After all, if you accepted the account of Jesus' trial found in the gospels, you would have to accept that the Sanhedrin slapped and spit on Jesus...the equivalent of someone appearing before the U.S. Supreme court and getting kicked in the groin by Scalia and getting a nuggy from Sandra Day O'Connor.

Anyone know if Josephus ever wrote about women getting stoned in Palestine? I was hoping for an unbiased source. Also, it would be interesting to compare the rights of women in Rome at the time to the rights of women in Palestine.

Toto · 08-20-2004, 11:24 PM

Josephus reports several men who were stoned - Onias, and James. Women would have been stoned for adultery, and Josephus is more concerned with political than social history.

The account of the trial in the Gospels is ahistorical, there for dramatic effect. But other narrative details may have some history behind them.

Stoning was a Jewish method of capitol punishment. The Greeks preferred hanging for women, because dying with your feet off the ground was somehow considered more disgraceful. The Romans had a lot of gruesome torturous punishments.

Hyndis · 08-21-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

A northern Nigerian woman sentenced to death by stoning for committing adultery has won her appeal against the verdict on a majority decision.

Four out of five judges rejected her conviction, saying she was not given "ample opportunity to defend herself".

Thirty-one-year-old Amina Lawal was convicted last year in Katsina state.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3137890.stm

They still do it today.

And for an overview of what it is and where its practiced, go here. And of course that list is countries is not complete...

Casper · 08-23-2004, 09:21 PM

Consider the psychological value of getting the "mob" to participate in a stoning. Consider the after-effects on the participants. They will forever have to justify their actions in the name of some higher "code".

Powerful.

Dargo · 08-24-2004, 03:53 PM

At least modern day Jews don't practice stoning. According to Heathen Dawn who lives in Israel, even hardcore Orthodox Jews find this part of the Torah embarassing and make no effort to have it reinstituted.

bleubird · 08-25-2004, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Consider the psychological value of getting the "mob" to participate in a stoning. Consider the after-effects on the participants. They will forever have to justify their actions in the name of some higher "code".

Powerful.

Is religion not about mob rule?

bleu

reprise · 08-25-2004, 03:07 AM

Yes, they did, and yes they still do. And it's always done in the name of some higher being or some higher authority (in some nations religious, in others political).

Amnesty International keeps track of these kinds of murders, as do several other human rights websites. If you have a weak stomach, I would suggest that you might want to avoid reading the incredibly graphic "punishments" which human beings are capable of inflicting on each other with the most basic and simple of "tools". There are things happening in this world every day of the week which make stoning look positively merciful.

08-20-2004, 10:22 PM	#1
Enda80 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston Posts: 190	Stoning women; did they really do that as last as the first century CE? Did they really stone women in Palestine as late as the First Century CE? If so, did other cultures of that time (China, Rome, Japan) stone women, too?

08-20-2004, 11:02 PM	#3
Enda80 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston Posts: 190	Well, if the Bible is accurate, then........ "If the Bible is accurate in its portrayal of social mores....." that is the problem. I was thinking that the possibility existed that the Gospel writers were biased in the way that they depicted the practices of rival religious groups. The Gospels are not very reliable in the way they depict culture in Palestine. After all, if you accepted the account of Jesus' trial found in the gospels, you would have to accept that the Sanhedrin slapped and spit on Jesus...the equivalent of someone appearing before the U.S. Supreme court and getting kicked in the groin by Scalia and getting a nuggy from Sandra Day O'Connor. Anyone know if Josephus ever wrote about women getting stoned in Palestine? I was hoping for an unbiased source. Also, it would be interesting to compare the rights of women in Rome at the time to the rights of women in Palestine.

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08-20-2004, 10:37 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Why does this surprize you? There are women being stoned today in fundamentalist countries for adultery - or at least the penalty is available. As with many harsh penalties, it probably was not used often, but it was available to frighten people. If the Bible is accurate in its portrayal of social mores, Jesus stopped a stoning by saying that whoever was without sin should cast the first stone. This would show that stoning was possible, but normal people recoiled at the practice and found a way around it.

08-20-2004, 11:24 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Josephus reports several men who were stoned - Onias, and James. Women would have been stoned for adultery, and Josephus is more concerned with political than social history. The account of the trial in the Gospels is ahistorical, there for dramatic effect. But other narrative details may have some history behind them. Stoning was a Jewish method of capitol punishment. The Greeks preferred hanging for women, because dying with your feet off the ground was somehow considered more disgraceful. The Romans had a lot of gruesome torturous punishments.

08-23-2004, 09:21 PM	#6
Casper Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 430	Consider the psychological value of getting the "mob" to participate in a stoning. Consider the after-effects on the participants. They will forever have to justify their actions in the name of some higher "code". Powerful.

08-24-2004, 03:53 PM	#7
Dargo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 713	At least modern day Jews don't practice stoning. According to Heathen Dawn who lives in Israel, even hardcore Orthodox Jews find this part of the Torah embarassing and make no effort to have it reinstituted.

08-25-2004, 03:07 AM	#9
reprise Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sydney Posts: 3,997	Yes, they did, and yes they still do. And it's always done in the name of some higher being or some higher authority (in some nations religious, in others political). Amnesty International keeps track of these kinds of murders, as do several other human rights websites. If you have a weak stomach, I would suggest that you might want to avoid reading the incredibly graphic "punishments" which human beings are capable of inflicting on each other with the most basic and simple of "tools". There are things happening in this world every day of the week which make stoning look positively merciful.

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