Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 09-22-2010, 12:44 PM

Christmas in September

James Tabor

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... by some calculations (see Jack Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology (or via: amazon.co.uk)) Jesus was born on or very near the 15th day of the 7th month–based on the chronology given in the book of Luke. The calculations are complex but have to do with the time in which Zechariah, father of John the Baptizer, served in the Temple (Luke 1:8), as the “section” of priests in which he was part went on duty at a specific time of year. From that window calculations can be made as to the birth of John, followed by the birth of Jesus six months later.

Belfast Telegraph

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The Gospels inform us that John the Baptist, who was Jesus's cousin, was born six months before Jesus. John's father, Zechariah, was a priest in the Temple in Jerusalem in the order of Abijah. We can find when the order of Abijah served in the Temple in I Chronicles 24:10, and from this we can calculate that the birth of John fell at Passover.

Jesus, then, was born six months later, on Sukkot, or the Feast of Tabernacles, which falls on Tishrei 15.

Rogue Classicism

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In fact, the Bible may teach that Jesus was born on the first day of the Jewish festival called The Feast of Tabernacles (or Booths). John 1:14 says Jesus came and “tabernacled” with us – literally “pitched his tent with us”. The Feast of Tabernacles was a Jewish holiday that celebrated “God coming and dwelling with us”. It begins on the Jewish date Tishri 15. It celebrates Moses’ building God a tent in the desert.

During this joyous, seven-day celebration, the Jews go outside and live in tents (booths) to remind them that God is with us and that this earth is not our true home.

The Feast of Tabernacles holiday is called the “Season of our Joy” and the Angel told the shepherds, “Behold I bring you good tidings of great joy that will be to all people.” The holiday is also called “The Feast of Nations”, because it was to be celebrated by all peoples after the Messiah came.

In his book, The Birth of Yeshua During Sukkot, writer Eddie Chumney says the swaddling cloths that Mary wrapped Jesus in even give a clue. During the Feast of Tabernacles, strips of cloths were used to light the 16 vats of oil in the court of women. Even the word “manger” is the same word used for “booth” in the Old Testament. (Genesis 33:17)

The Bible says Jesus was circumcised on the “eighth day”. This was Jesus’ eighth day, yes, but it is also the name of a day on the calendar, called Shemini Atzeret, which is the day after the seven-day Feast of Tabernacles. That’s why Chumney believes Jesus was born on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles.

Chumney

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In Luke 1:5, Zachariah (Z'karyah) is a priest (Cohen) of the division of Abijah (Avijah). ....

During the third week in the month of Nisan, the priests from all 24 districts would come to the temple to help during the week of Passover (Pesach). This would also be the case for the festival of Pentecost (Shavuot) and for the festival of Sukkot (Tabernacles) when all males were required to go to Jerusalem (Yerushalayim) as specified by G-d in Deuteronomy (Devarim) 16:16. In First Chronicles 24:10, we see that abijah was the eighth division or course of priests. The course of abijah would minister during the tenth week of the year. Remember, the weeks of Passover and Shavuot would not be counted because all the priests were required to go to Jerusalem then. In Luke 1:9-10, we see that Zacharias is burning incense. This is done in the room of the temple known as the Holy Place. As the incense (which represents the prayers of G-d's people [Psalm (Tehillim) 141:2; Revelation 8:3-4]) is being burned by the priests in the temple, 18 special prayers are prayed. These 18 prayers would be prayed every day in the temple. One of these prayers is that Elijah (Eliyahu) would come. This is important because it was understood by the people, as G-d established, that Elijah (Eliyahu) would precede the coming of the Messiah as stated in Malachi 4:5.

These 18 special prayers would be prayed twice a day, once in the morning and once in the afternoon. In Luke 1:11-13, the angel appeared on the right side of the altar and told Zacharias that his prayer was heard and John (Yochanan) the Immerser (Baptist) would be born. John (Yochanan) the Immerser (Baptist) was not literally Elijah (Eliyahu), but was of the spirit of power of Elijah (Luke 1:17).

Allowing two weeks for the laws of separation that G-d commanded in Leviticus (Vayikra) 12:5; 15:19,24-25 after going back to the house (Luke 1:23) and then going forward nine months (Sivan [tenth week] + 2 weeks + 9 months) puts the birth of John (Yochanan) during the festival of Passover (Pesach). This is an extremely important point because during the service for Passover, which is called the Passover Seder, the people are instructed by G-d to go to the door during one part of the service and look for Elijah (Eliyahu) while the Passover meal is eaten. The cup is called the cup of Elijah. The understanding of Elijah preceding the coming of the Messiah was the basis for the question in Matthew (Mattityahu) 17:10-13.

stephan huller · 09-22-2010, 02:13 PM

Interesting but the bottom line for me at least is that the Marcionites didn't recognize those portions of Luke. As such they have little value in determining the age of an angelic hypostasis.

seyorni · 09-22-2010, 02:42 PM

As a history book the Bible leaves a lot to be desired, Toto.

Do you celebrate Earth Creation Day on Oct. 23rd, as well (cf: Ussher chronology)?

Toto · 09-22-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seyorni

As a history book the Bible leaves a lot to be desired, Toto.

Do you celebrate Earth Creation Day on Oct. 23rd, as well (cf: Ussher chronology)?

I celebrate a lot of holidays I don't believe in. I am not suggesting that this is real history.

spamandham · 09-22-2010, 08:49 PM

So Jesus was born at the fall equinox, and died at the spring equinox.

credoconsolans · 09-22-2010, 08:57 PM

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Originally Posted by spamandham

So Jesus was born at the fall equinox, and died at the spring equinox.

Well, doesn't Luke say the shepherds were watching their flocks by night which indicated a spring birth and thus a mid-late summer conception?

gupwalla · 09-22-2010, 09:09 PM

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Originally Posted by spamandham

So Jesus was born at the fall equinox, and died at the spring equinox.

Yes...very convenient, no? It's like the historicists feel compelled to do the mythicist's homework for them.

I do like the suggestion that Joseph and Mary may have been making the fall pilgrimage to the temple, and that Jesus may have been born in a booth rather than a manger. It's...well, it's pretty much infinitely more believable than either of our traditional birth narratives. It also dovetails nicely with Matthew's dramatic device of presenting Jesus as a Moses figure.

Aside from that bit of insight, all of these hypotheses basically require Luke's birth narrative to be more or less historically accurate, and we have no reason to assume that (and some good reasons to doubt it). We also have no reason outside of Luke's account (which is most likely a literary device modeled on Samuel) to make a biological connection between John and Jesus.

So, it's a fun bit of mostly baseless speculation. And on that note, everyone just missed it but 9/22 is the birthday of both Bilbo and Frodo Baggins!

Dave31 · 09-26-2010, 12:31 PM

The birth of John the Baptist is detailed in Luke 1:24-38 and it does say that John and Jesus were conceived 6 months apart. John the baptists birthday known as St. John's Day is celebrated on June 24th - 3 days after the summer solstice. So, that would put Jesus' birth day at Christmas.

However, it says in the Gospel of John at 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."

We've heard that scripture before referring to John the baptist "decreasing" so that Jesus may "increase."

Well, from the summer solstice heading towards the winter solstice the sun could be said to "decrease" in strength while from the winter solstice to the summer solstice, it would be increasing in strength. Is this a subtle clue of Jesus' solar attributes?

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ

spamandham · 09-27-2010, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave31

Well, from the summer solstice heading towards the winter solstice the sun could be said to "decrease" in strength while from the winter solstice to the summer solstice, it would be increasing in strength. Is this a subtle clue of Jesus' solar attributes?

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ

Maybe, but for some reason on this board, a mountain of circumstantial evidence of astrotheological influence counts only as sophomoric speculation, whereas divining The Real Jesus™ out of obviously mystical stories of fantasy is considered 'analysis'.

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09-22-2010, 02:13 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Interesting but the bottom line for me at least is that the Marcionites didn't recognize those portions of Luke. As such they have little value in determining the age of an angelic hypostasis.

09-22-2010, 02:42 PM	#3
seyorni Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Albuquerque. SW USA Posts: 3,176	As a history book the Bible leaves a lot to be desired, Toto. Do you celebrate Earth Creation Day on Oct. 23rd, as well (cf: Ussher chronology)?

09-22-2010, 08:49 PM	#5
spamandham Contributor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,525	So Jesus was born at the fall equinox, and died at the spring equinox.

09-26-2010, 12:31 PM	#8
Dave31 Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Posts: 425	The birth of John the Baptist is detailed in Luke 1:24-38 and it does say that John and Jesus were conceived 6 months apart. John the baptists birthday known as St. John's Day is celebrated on June 24th - 3 days after the summer solstice. So, that would put Jesus' birth day at Christmas. However, it says in the Gospel of John at 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease." We've heard that scripture before referring to John the baptist "decreasing" so that Jesus may "increase." Well, from the summer solstice heading towards the winter solstice the sun could be said to "decrease" in strength while from the winter solstice to the summer solstice, it would be increasing in strength. Is this a subtle clue of Jesus' solar attributes? The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ

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