outhouse

Really? Then how do you explain worship to Yahweh, and all the OT parrallels and influence to Christianity. Without Judaism you dont have Christianity.

Paul flat states he took his movement to the God-Fearers who worshipped Judaism and wanted to be Jews, some exact statement with the Gate Proselytes.

Hellenistic people who worshipped Judaism are the exact people who formed the movement that evolved into Christianity.

outhouse

In this time there were many versions of the movement all through the Roman empire.

We do not know exactly how much influence the Jewish sect actually had, we dont even know how much Paul hunted and down and murdered. But in Pauls time it was a small movement, and he didnt headhunt for 3 ish possible years without results. We dont know if he took out any of the original apostles or not.



There were up to 400,000 ish attendants at the passover event that spread the martyerdom of the Jewish teacher healer. This spread different oral traditions all through the roman empire. And it grew from there. Peopl ein houses not churches had many different beliefs, and we have Paul writing to them trying to straighten them out to his values. Paul did not spread the word as much as coral it up and try for uniformity in his version of what he thought. Then we have later authors trying to soften Paul up to match the changing movement.

Toto

1. Yahweh is not mentioned in the NT. Christians worship "god" or "theos," not a particular tribal god.

2. Later Christian writings, such as the gospels, clearly rely on a Jewish basis. But these are most likely second century documents and do not establish the origins of Christianity.

3. No one believes everything that Paul wrote. (Who are the Gate Proselytes?)

Toto

The idea that Paul hunted down Christians is the stuff of legend. It is highly improbable. The idea that he might have "taken out" any of the original apostles is even more improbable - such a claim would have been noted somewhere by his enemies. And where do you get the 3 years?



You keep repeating this 400,000 figure, but it makes no sense. If 400,000 people had witnessed a significant event such as the martyrdom of a wisdom teacher on Passover, you would expect some more evidence. All you have are fifth hand stories that resemble myth making or story telling more than actual history.

outhouse

#1 The NT worships the deity of Judaism and added a son to the Jews god, factually expanding the Jewish deity.


#2 The first century documents that are followed, are jewish in origin.


#3 I dont beleive Paul for beans, but that is besides the point. There was a rift in Judaism before Jesus existed. Even if he didnt exist, a rift existed in Judaism between Jews and some hellenistic Jews. hellenistic people who worshipped Judaism and were converted and or converting, were viewed as Gate Proselytes and different sects known as God-Fearers, and were also known by other names.

These names depending and who was describing said people. The Hellenistic people who would become Christians were worhipping in Synagogues for centuries.

outhouse

Having the temple hire a headhunter like Paul makes perfect sense.

Here is a small cult saying not to worship in the temple, but to avoid the temple and its corruption and woprship at home around diner tables. Jesus movement was taking the movement to and for the poor, exactly like the Zealots in Galilee would have done.

Jesus tells his people to give up all possessions and money, for a reason. That was because you would not feed the corruption and feed their oppressors.


Significant? we have plenty of evidence from Paul to the gospels all describing the last week of a mortal mans life, paralleled to mortal Roman Emporers divinity.

Toto

You can argue that Christians transformed the Jewish god into a universal god, but it's not clear what you mean by "factually."

What documents?


This was not a rift. There were god fearers, and there still are (James Tabor, for example.) It is possible that god fearers were the original Christians, but you need to do more than just assert this, and there was no need for god fearers to break off and create a new religion. Most of them seem to have been happy to stay god fearers.

If you don't believe Paul, please stop citing him as if you do.

outhouse

I dont trust what Paul writes. But that doesnt mean everything he writes can be thrown out the window.

Because it goes against your personal hobby horse. Doesnt mean he didnt exist, nor that you can discount the evidence he left behind.

outhouse

<removed>

Toto

I have not claimed that Paul did not exist. I doubt very much that he persecuted Christians. I am reasonably sure that the high priest did not send him to Damascus to arrest any Christians there.

You have this habit of basing a conclusion on something in the gospels, and then claiming that, of course, you don't believe everything they say, you're not that gullible. But if you are going to cite anything, at least say why you think that it is at all believable.