Huon

Possibly, God does not know what will happen to God to-morrow and some days later...

Ray Moscow

I think you're right. I think it was an earlier ritual tradition that was worked into narrative form later. (Compare 1 Corithians 11)

However, the return in 3 days motif was also worked in later, probably as an allusion to the Jonah story. It's just that bringing both into the narrative clashes at some level, as you point out.

Ray

Splarnst

It's like you haven't finished reading the gospels and found out that Jesus ascended into heaven :huh:

Ray Moscow

This is more of the evolving tradition, and it's foreign to the earlier version(s) of Mark, which lacked any ascension.

Even Luke (assuming the same author wrote Acts) seems to change his mind about this, changing the ascension from about the same day as the resurrection (Luke 24) to 40 days later (Acts 1:3).

Anyway, 43 days before departure seems a bit early to go on about "remember me".

Chili

Yes! That is the very purpose of religion which is not meant to be a life time social club but a fraternity with a dress code that belongs to the religion and will be removed before ascension can take place (or there would be Catholics in heaven = "for Catholics only" now means that all will be ex-Catholic in heaven).

The message here is that the body of Christ is not the Jew but only that which lies beneath the Jew (wherefore Jesus is not recognized later).

"Do this in memory of me" just opens the door for us to follow Jesus into heaven and actually gives us our own key to the kingdom of God in our comprehension of the sacred "amen" = recognize the actual body of Christ in the universe.

Clouseau

For one thing, it was not a ritual. The 'remembrance' became an ordinary meal, a bit too ordinary, in some cases, when some disciples had to be warned of unbrotherly behaviour at their love feasts. (Such occasions were not continued, and love feasts are rare even today, more than 400 years after the Reformation.)

But Jesus' return was only temporary, to show that love feasts were worth eating. The central significance of his atoning death was the object of attention, applicable in all aspects of the life of the saint, becoming as much food for the spirit as bread is (or was) for the body.

Chili

Ordinary meal? Did you forget about the Consecration and Transubstantiation?

storytime

How did Jesus know he was going to his death?

He was a Jew who knew the law that condemned him for declaring himself equal to God. No man was equal to God, no man stood beside God as a partner, or a savior, or a messiah. Maybe this is why Jesus preached in secrecy for much of his life, and telling people not to report his whereabouts.

Jesus also said not a hair of the disciples heads would be harmed, but, they were all killed - for preaching the lie.

Clouseau

Yes, except for the Christian's thoughts and conversation, which are centred on Christ's sacrifice. This sacrifice is the 'engine room' of Christianity, or perhaps its 'fertile soil' that produces the fruits of Christianity; kindness, patience, humility, self-control, trustworthiness, willingness to forgive, peaceableness, etc. Many Christians do not often, or even ever, actually eat bread as a reminder, but simply keep Christ's sacrifice in their minds all the time. Paul wrote 'Rejoice always', and the cause of rejoicing for Christians is their atonement, so a physical meal can be a little superfluous in practice.

Johnny Skeptic

Chris said "Steve Carr assumes that Jesus knows he's going to return in three days - that assumption is without merit." Don't the texts indicate that Jesus did know that he was going to return in three days, even if only for a short time? My word, Jesus supposedly knew about all kinds of future events.

Luke 24:1-8 say "Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And they remembered his words."

Regarding those Scriptures, I believe that it is reasonble to assume that the writer of Luke implies that it would not have made any sense for Jesus to say that he was going to rise from the dead after three days if he did not plan to appear to anyone. That would have left his followers in turmoil, sadness, and disillusionment, which is exactly what supposedly happened until he made some personal appearances. In addition, if Jesus had any sense at all, he would have known that if he did not make any personal appearances, his opponents would have claimed that his body had been stolen and that he had not risen from the dead.