Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 04-09-2013, 01:40 PM

Truth Behind Gospel of Judas Revealed in Ancient Inks

Quote:

As part of a 2006 National Geographic Society (the Society) investigation of the document, microscopist Joseph Barabe of McCrone Associates in Illinois and a team of researchers analyzed the ink on the tattered gospel to find out if it was real or forged. Some of the chemicals in the ink raised red flags — until Barabe and his colleagues found, at the Louvre Museum, a study of Egyptian documents from the third century A.D., the same time period of the Gospal of Judas.

...

Barabe and his colleagues specialize in thorough investigations of old — or supposedly old — documents and artwork. The chemical composition of inks used can reveal the difference between something authentically ancient and a forgery. In 2009, Barabe helped expose a gospel called the "Archaic Mark," which some claimed was a 14th-century manuscript, as a modern forgery.

stephan huller · 04-09-2013, 01:45 PM

Pete,

Did I hear 280 CE for the Gospel of Judas? What year did Constantine reign again? Must be something wrong with the testing. The researchers must be all part of the conspiracy funded by Eusebius's ancient trust fund ...

outhouse · 04-09-2013, 03:25 PM

They had a 1 hour special on nat geo about this.

Pretty good, had the late Marvin Meyers and Johnathon Reed commenting on it.

Showed the evolution of the piece that we can know about. Bought in the Egyptian antiquities market, stolen, and reaquired at a later date. Placed in a vault in what NY for a decade, where the piece's deteriorated dramatically. When the Egyptian dealer first had it before it was stolen it was in much better shape according the man [1 of 3] who athenticated it originally. Before any testing was done, it was deemed authentic but they only had a few hundred thousand dollars, and the dealer wanted over 6 figures. He later settled for less then the 6 figure number.

aa5874 · 04-09-2013, 04:33 PM

It would appear that the Gospel of Judas was dated c 280 CE plus or minus 60 years.

So, it could have been written in the 4th century or as late as 340 CE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

Quote:

.... The only copy of the Gospel of Judas known to exist is a Coptic language text that has been carbon dated to AD 280, plus or minus 60 years. Joseph Barabe presented the behind-the-scenes story of the role an analysis of the ink played in authenticating the book at a American Chemical Society meeting. [1] It has been suggested that the text derives from an earlier Greek version.
A translation of the text was first published in early 2006 by the National Geographic Society.
..

mountainman · 04-09-2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Pete,

Did I hear 280 CE for the Gospel of Judas?

About the ink you heard yourself reading the following:

Quote:

What's more, the Louvre study found that the metal-based inks from this time period contained little sulfur, just like the ink on the Gospel of Judas.

The discovery gave the researchers the confidence to declare the document consistent with a date of approximately A.D. 280. (Barabe and his colleagues caution that this finding doesn't prove beyond doubt that the document is authentic, but rather that there are no red flags proving it's a forgery.)

About the UA C14 result you heard yourself reading the Nat Geo Official Report which was as aa5874 has noted, 280 CE +/- 60 years. (i.e. between 220 and 340 CE).

Quote:

What year did Constantine reign again?

The Good Rule [ 305 - 314 CE]
The Bad Rule [ 315 - 324 CE]
The Ugly Rule [ 325 - 337 CE ]

Courtesy of The History of Aurelius Victor

Quote:

Must be something wrong with the testing. The researchers must be all part of the conspiracy funded by Eusebius's ancient trust fund ...

Try and answer these questions:

(1) Why would A. J. Tim Jull, director of the National Science Foundation-Arizona AMS Laboratory, who's team radiocarbon dated five tiny samples of papyrus and leather book binding from the codex containing gJudas, knowing full well that the scientific results were 280 CE +/- 60 years. (i.e. between 220 and 340 CE), state in the UA Press Report that these results are "clearly before the Council of Nicaea" ? Why would a C14 scientist make such a basic error?

(2) If you peruse THE GOSPEL OF JUDAS AND THE QARARA CODICES SOME PRELIMINARY OBSERVATIONS by Peter M. Head, Tyndale Bulletin 58.1 (2007) 1-23. you will discover that one of the fragments tested and dated to the year 333 CE (+/- 60 years i.e. between 277 and 393 CE) was withdrawn from the result set.

(3) If you go looking for the final report from UA and the team lead by A. J. Tim Jull for the experiment in early January 2005 you will not find it. It has not issued for normal peer review examination. National Geographic may have it. Where the fuck is it?

(4) Has the C14 result be calibrated? The final report will tell us immediately since there is a very distinctive NON SMOOTH distribution (see below). You or Jeffrey were going to write to Peter Head about this some time ago. If this is so I expect you have not heard anything new.

The above graph has been prepared using OxCal software.
The main features of the graph are:

(1) The Radiocarbon Age Estimate as a Normal Distribution (Red) - shown at the top left.
(2) The Calibration Curve - shown as the band descending left to right.
(3) The Calibrated Radiocarbon Result - shown as the multi-peaked distribution at the center.

If we had the final report this critical question could be answered.

We do not appear to have the final C14 report from January 2005.

Where is it? Would like to email UA?

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04-09-2013, 01:45 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Pete, Did I hear 280 CE for the Gospel of Judas? What year did Constantine reign again? Must be something wrong with the testing. The researchers must be all part of the conspiracy funded by Eusebius's ancient trust fund ...

04-09-2013, 03:25 PM	#3
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	They had a 1 hour special on nat geo about this. Pretty good, had the late Marvin Meyers and Johnathon Reed commenting on it. Showed the evolution of the piece that we can know about. Bought in the Egyptian antiquities market, stolen, and reaquired at a later date. Placed in a vault in what NY for a decade, where the piece's deteriorated dramatically. When the Egyptian dealer first had it before it was stolen it was in much better shape according the man [1 of 3] who athenticated it originally. Before any testing was done, it was deemed authentic but they only had a few hundred thousand dollars, and the dealer wanted over 6 figures. He later settled for less then the 6 figure number.

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