BuffaloBill

Hi,

For some reason, I have thought there is a biblical passage that claims some people who have made it to heaven after the end times will try to lead a revolt and be kicked out.

Can you help me?

Amaleq13

That sounds to me like the description of Satan et. al. in Revelation. The story, I believe, is understood to have taken place before the creation of humans but the fact that it is contained in a prophecy about the End Times may be the source of your confusion.

BuffaloBill

Hi Ameleq,

I am not talking about the revolt of Lucifer and his angels, which I believe is in Genesis.

I am pretty sure that it is not in Revelation.

I thought I read it in "The Late, Great Planet Earth" with supporting verse, but have been unable to find it in scriptures.

Doctor X

Buffalo Bill:

Welcome to the forums . . . mind the hounds.

The "revolt against heaven" is really not in the Bible, particularly any lead by a "Lucifer." The source is actually an extra-biblical Book of Jubilees. If you are interested in this stuff, particularly the development of the modern conception of Satan from his various origins--such as where "Lucifer" comes from, a great book is:

The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth

--J.D.

{edited by Toto to remove pesky linefeed from URL}

BuffaloBill

Hi Doc,

Lucifer had nothing to do with this revolt. It's a revolt after the wheat and chaff has been separated. The way I recall it, God has one last fit of anger and expels these unfortunate people, for unexplained reasons.

Maybe I'm mistaken.

I thought I also recalled Robert Ingersoll commenting why. He thought perhaps some tender souls might look over the balcony of heaven and witness the horrors of hell, see their loved ones in pain, and demand it to stop.

Doctor X

Well, I would need a specific passage. I do not have Jubilees in front of me so I cannot say whether or not it occurs there. I am not aware of it though--it may be a rather "loose" interpretation of something. To give an example, some try to frame the "sons of the gods" who come down to earth to mate with "da wimminfolk" in Genesis--and found a race of "mighty men" as "fallen angels" ala Milton! It really does not work, but the passage is cited by those who believe the "fallen angels" story is in the OT.

I corrected "Lucifer" because you suspected that the "revolt of Lucifer and his angels" is in Genesis. It is not.

--J.D.

Picture

As far as Lucifer's revolt: This is in the Bible, in the NT and I can't be for sure, but I think it's in the Epistles (really narrowed it down, huh?) The Word says that Lucifer would "exalt myself above the stars of God" and that God cast him and one-third of the angels out of Heaven.

The seperation of the chaff and the wheat is talking not about a revolt as I understand (I might be wrong), but as God seperating his people from the other people of the earth (that would be, non-beleviers)...


....but that's just what I think...

Doctor X

Picture:

I do not know how well the "Search" function is working in this place . . . it seems to die whenever it is needed . . . but some threads dealt with the issue. "Lucifer" results from a creative translation of a taunt. The revolt is not really there.

I would recommend Forsythe's book as well--he devotes a chapter to the minutae of this--also where Satan comes from stn: a thing you trip over, obstacle. It is interesting that Mk retains a bit of this flavor in his PUNishing attack on "Rock head" with the "get behind me, Satan!" He also explains the development of the myth.

Incidentally, Satan as a character or entity first appears . . . and only appears . . . in the Chronicles' rewriting of the Deuteronomistic History--C has "Satan" make David take a census so YHWH can punish him where as in the earlier DH version, YHWH himself does it! The "prosecutor/adversary" of Job is not the "evil bad guy" that the modern conception of Satan is--or the one implied by the Chronicler.

--J.D.

BuffaloBill

Well, I'm about ready to chalk it up to a figment of my imagination then. If it's in "Jubilee" I guess it doesn't count Doc.

judge

Hmmm...that may explain it