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Old 01-07-2008, 07:22 AM   #21
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The religion of the Torah at the time of compilation was polytheist. It didn't become properly monotheist until the rise of the Pharisees in ca 70 AD, which was way later. So Elohim has to be plural or it won't make any sense, will it?
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:48 AM   #22
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The religion of the Torah at the time of compilation was polytheist. It didn't become properly monotheist until the rise of the Pharisees in ca 70 AD, which was way later. So Elohim has to be plural or it won't make any sense, will it?
Well, that's what I think too yet it remains translated singularly as God more often while scholars and apologists make sense of it somehow.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:52 AM   #23
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The religion of the Torah at the time of compilation was polytheist. It didn't become properly monotheist until the rise of the Pharisees in ca 70 AD, which was way later. So Elohim has to be plural or it won't make any sense, will it?
Well, that's what I think too yet it remains translated singularly as God more often while scholars and apologists make sense of it somehow.
Wishful thinking?
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:56 AM   #24
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Indeed; that, or faithful thinking.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:09 AM   #25
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Indeed; that, or faithful thinking.

Ooh....even worse than "wishful thinking."
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:22 AM   #26
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The religion of the Torah at the time of compilation was polytheist. It didn't become properly monotheist until the rise of the Pharisees in ca 70 AD, which was way later. So Elohim has to be plural or it won't make any sense, will it?
I think that's too late a date. IMO, the Exile is the start of monotheism as the dominant religious view among Jews. When it became universal is hard to tell of course.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:31 AM   #27
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Indeed; that, or faithful thinking.

Ooh....even worse than "wishful thinking."
A matter of perspective, I guess.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:32 AM   #28
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When the plural form Elohim is used together with a singular verb, the plural ending does not indicate a plural (gods) but rather an intensivum. The English translation would be something like "the very god" or "the, like, totally awesome and godly god (squeal)". Using a plural ending to indicate an intensivum seems to be normal in Hebrew.

Gerard Stafleu
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:37 AM   #29
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The religion of the Torah at the time of compilation was polytheist. It didn't become properly monotheist until the rise of the Pharisees in ca 70 AD, which was way later. So Elohim has to be plural or it won't make any sense, will it?
I think that's too late a date. IMO, the Exile is the start of monotheism as the dominant religious view among Jews. When it became universal is hard to tell of course.
Right.

I think the exaltation of Marduk among the Babylonians was a move in the direction of monotheism, and may well be from where the Jews adopted it.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:47 AM   #30
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The 'plural majestic' does not seem to have been used before the thirteenth century. In Spain, as late as 1598 the form was "Yo, el rey" "I, the King". Elohim oriiginally was a plural noun.

Eldarion Lathria
Chinese has a character zhen (pin yin) which can be used for the plural majestic. I am guessing it was in used before the thirteeth century, although someone who knows the history of Chinese can jump in and say when it appeared. My point though is that the plural majestic, although not in every language, has probably been in many languages throughout history.
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