FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-16-2007, 07:15 PM   #1
Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart
Posts: 10,326
Default Generation...or race

Hi everyone. I have 3 simple questions...

I know...I know..famous last words.

Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 says: "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
A Christian at work tells me the correct translation does not say "generation" but "race"...as in race of people.

He also says the verse is aimed at the "reader" and not to the Disciples.

Lastly, he says the differences of the OT rules on divorce and Mat 5:31 is a case of marrying out of love and not lust.

Are these true? Mostly, I'm asking for any translation difficulties. If there are none, I can usually figure out the rest.
Gawen is offline  
Old 03-16-2007, 07:38 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bli Bli
Posts: 3,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawen View Post
Hi everyone. I have 3 simple questions...

I know...I know..famous last words.

Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 says: "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
A Christian at work tells me the correct translation does not say "generation" but "race"...as in race of people.
How is the same word used throughout the gospels? Does it ever refer to race?
judge is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 05:27 AM   #3
Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart
Posts: 10,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by judge View Post
How is the same word used throughout the gospels? Does it ever refer to race?
Well, I mean really, "generation" and "race" are so different, I can't see how Greek or Hebrew could have something similar that would confuse the two...but one never knows (at least in my condition).
Gawen is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 09:34 AM   #4
Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart
Posts: 10,326
Default

BibleGateway says this:
I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
e. Or race
Gawen is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 09:36 AM   #5
Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart
Posts: 10,326
Default

C'mon you guys. Fortytwo views and only one person says anything?
Gawen is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 10:29 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 7,816
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawen View Post
Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 says: "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
A Christian at work tells me the correct translation does not say "generation" but "race"...as in race of people.

He also says the verse is aimed at the "reader" and not to the Disciples.
I think you'll find the above covered in The contraversy of the paragraph "This Generation"
Amaleq13 is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 11:29 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: none
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawen View Post
C'mon you guys. Fortytwo views and only one person says anything?
If it's not an historical Jesus, people don't like talking about it.

Quote:
Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 says: "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
A Christian at work tells me the correct translation does not say "generation" but "race"...as in race of people.
No, it's generation, not race. He's wrong.

Quote:
He also says the verse is aimed at the "reader" and not to the Disciples.
Ask him if he wrote it, and if not, how could he possibly know.

Quote:
Lastly, he says the differences of the OT rules on divorce and Mat 5:31 is a case of marrying out of love and not lust.
The text says no such thing.
Chris Weimer is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 11:53 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,719
Default

The Greek word used is "genea." If you look in dictionaries, you will find meanings like race, family, generation, offspring. So the first question is which translation does one choose here, and why. This I will leave to people who know more than I do.

I want to remark on the "race" translation though. The problem here is one as much of English as it is of Greek: what does "race" mean. There are at least two different common usages of "race" in contemporary English: the biological and the political versions. In the political version, people with white skin, black skin and yellow skin, to mention just three, are all of a different race. AFAIK these political "races" don't translate to biological races. So the first question to ask would be: if we were to translate "genea" as "race" in the relevant places, which version of "race" are we referring to and does that version of race match what the Greek tries to say.

Gerard Stafleu
gstafleu is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 12:08 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: none
Posts: 9,879
Default

New Testament usage indicates that "race" as in kin, Latin genus, is not how it's used. It literally means "birth", and from that you can conceive of the idea of those born at the same time, or in the same family.

You would also have to allow Matthew 12.45 to mean "evil race", which is not quite a radical reading, and 16.4, and 17.17, and other passages where it's clear that Jesus, a Jew himself, doesn't think that all Jews are evil. So it's certainly not "race" that Matthew was using, but the more preferred generation.
Chris Weimer is offline  
Old 03-17-2007, 12:51 PM   #10
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: the fringe of the caribbean
Posts: 18,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawen View Post
Hi everyone. I have 3 simple questions...

I know...I know..famous last words.

Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 says: "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
A Christian at work tells me the correct translation does not say "generation" but "race"...as in race of people.

He also says the verse is aimed at the "reader" and not to the Disciples.
How does a single Christian get the authority to determine the correct translation, and which version of the Bible has 'race' instead of 'generation'?

I do not think there were any verses for the 'race' to 'read' for a long time.
aa5874 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:00 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.