Rigsby

I wonder if anyone can help me. I am in a conflict with a Christian who states that Matthew was a (Jewish Diaspora) reader of the Greek translation of the Scriptures, and that he would have read the Greek mistranslation of ‘young woman’ into ‘virgin’ - and that that is why he wrote “virgin� in his Gospel. Is this true (would he not have read the Scriptures in Hebrew), or did he decide to write of a ‘virgin’ birth, or did it LATER get changed to ‘virgin’?

Also, how old is the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint)?

Many thanks.

Vorkosigan

Go here for the Septaugint

http://students.cua.edu/16kalvesmaki/lxx/

As for Matthew, that's a can of worms I'll leave to others.

Chris Weimer

I discuss this issue here

Edited to add: as you can see, the only position one can take is the a priori position that the texts are inspired. The hypocrisy there is astounding. :banghead:

Toto

This is the standard interpretation of that passage. It is not clear why you would be in conflict with the Christian over this issue - this Christian seems to have adopted the secular interpretation of the 'virgin birth'. More fundamentalist Christians claim that Matthew wrote that Jesus was born of a virgin because he really was, and that fulfilled the Hebrew Scriptures, which really were referring to a virgin.

johntheapostate

This is an issue that I have not resolved to my satisfaction. How can Isaiah 7:14 be used as a prophesy for the virgin birth of Christ when the text clearly indicates that this child will be a sign to those Isaiah was talking to and was to occur in a relatively short time

Was the prophetess that Isaiah knocked up as depicted in Isaiah 8:3 the same women as the virgin in chapter 7? It sort off ties in with the story in Chapter 7 but the names of the child/children do not match.

Did the word translated as virgin in Isaiah actually mean virgin and did the author of Isaiah actually intend for his readers to understand that the child would be conceived without sexual intercourse?

Diogenes the Cynic

The word did not mean virgin and the woman was already pregnant. God says, [paraphrasing freely] "see that pregnant chick....she's going to name her kid Emmanuel and before that kid has hair on his balls your enemies will be defeated."

The kid was just a marker of time with no personal significance at all. The word almah ("young woman") was translated into the LXX as parthenos ("virgin") and Matthew, who used the Septuagint for his scripture-mining, seized on the mistranslation and ran with it.

When the story is read in context, it's clear that it can't possibly be Messianic.

Killer Mike

The Gospel of Mathew was originally written in Greek. This is based on two Greek written sources of which Mathew drew upon, namely MarK and the Gospel of Q. See "History and Literature of Early Christianity" Page 177 by Helmut Koester. Koester is the John H Morrison Professor emeritis of New Testament Studies at Harvard University, Editor of Harvard Theological review and Chairman of the New Testament Board of Hermeneia, a critical and historical commentary on the Bible. For more info regarding the dates of the Old Testament I refer to "Understanding the Old Testament" by Bernard Anderson. Hope this helps. And Good Luck! Just a word of caution: you will never convince someone in a religious mindset. Its a waste of time. I mean imagine trying to convince a muslim fundamentalists the Koran is mearly another type of literature? It can also be quite frustrating trying to "reason" with them. Like a tricky attorney, they will argue to the point of absurdity. :banghead: But at the same time it can be quite entertaining as well

Killer Mike

I noticed you are from the Twin Cities. I grew up near Lake Nokomis on the south side of Minneapolis. Ohio is a little different. :down: I surely miss the beautiful Twin Cities :thumbs: