stephan huller

i was responding to what you wrote
you really are the guy from the argument clinic skit. i have been trying to have a dialogue with you but you have a pathological need to argue with me and everyone else here even when i echo your own words. there is something wrong with you. i don't know what to do with you. i had written down a couple of ideas for your paper but obviously there is just going to add fuel to the fire

Jeffrey Gibson

Will you answer my question about whether you read Greek? I was under the impression that you could. But now I'm not at all sure.

Jeffrey

stephan huller

i cannot make complete sense of the greek text of clement without an english translation and liddell

Jeffrey Gibson

Nice change of subject. I didn't ask you about making complete sense of this text. I asked you about your overall competency in Greek.

In any case, for Patristic texts, you should be consulting Lampe, not LSJ.

Jeffrey

stephan huller

So let me be brutally honest about all my skills in the various languages to get that out of the way. My native tongue is German but I cannot read a scholarly text in German without consulting a dictionary. I took French in Canada all the way up to university but still need to consult a dictionary when reading academic texts written in French. I still need to consult a dictionary for Biblical Hebrew. I can muddle my way through Greek material with the aid of a dictionary. I cannot read Arabic but can make out words in Arabic. In none of the languages mentioned above could I claim to be a translator, not even German.

I assume then that you are not going to answer my question based on your interpretation of the material in Clement as you continue to resist engaging anyone here in a collegial manner.

Jeffrey Gibson

He doesn't. He thinks -- and rightly so -- that Jesus begins (εἰσάγεται ἐν =enters into) his ministry under a burdensome commission -- and that commission, Clement knows from scripture, entails that Jesus, the one who suffers, not "toils" for us (ὁ κάμνων ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν), give up his life as a ransom for the many.

BTW, what Greek word in Clement's text stands behind the "because" in the English translation of it that you cite?

Jeffrey

stephan huller

That brings up a very good question. Here are my limitations in Greek. The better rendering of the text might be:

"I came not he says, to be served but to serve. Therefore he is introduced in the gospel as wearied the one who toiled for us ..."

But the place where I run into difficulties is with the last sentence of this section. I wouldn't have a clue what to do with the 'brother' in the final sentence. I'll get that in a moment. I would really appreciate your input on that.

Jeffrey Gibson

What brings up a good question"?

"I came not he says, to be served but to serve. Therefore he is introduced in the gospel as wearied the one who toiled for us ..."

Why is this better? How do you get "introduced in" from εἰσάγεται ἐν? And why do you insist on "wearied" as a good translation of κεκμηκώς and "toiled" for κάμνων?

BTW, what does Clement say about the Servant of Yahweh?


What are you talking about? Where is the Greek word for brother found in this text?

Τοιοῦτος ἡμῶν ὁ παιδαγωγός, ἀγαθὸς ἐνδίκως. Οὐκ ἦλθον, φησί, διακονηθῆναι, ἀλλὰ διακονῆσαι. Διὰ τοῦτο εἰσάγεται ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ κεκμηκώς, ὁ κάμνων ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν καὶ δοῦναι τὴν ψυχὴν τὴν ἑαυτοῦ λύτρον ἀντὶ πολλῶν ὑπισχνούμενος [Instructor 1.9.85.2]

Jeffrey

stephan huller

i never claimed to be a translator. just addressing the "because" inquiry. playing star wars. give me 30

Jeffrey Gibson

What "because" inquiry?

Jeffrey