Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gstafleu · 08-02-2007, 05:00 AM

In God Is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens states (p273) that the Jews borrowed Hannukah from the Christians:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitchens

If one could nominate an absolutely tragic day in human history, it would be the occasion that is now commemorated by the vapid and annoying holiday known as "Hannukah." For once, instead of Christianity plagiarizing from Judaism, the Jews borrow shamelessly from Christians in the pathetic hope of a celebration that coincides with "Christmas," which is itself a quasi-Christian annexation, complete with burning logs and holly and mistletoe, of a pagan Northland solstice originally illuminated by the Aurora Borealis.

There is a lot of opportunity for side-tracking here, but my question is: is it true that Hannukah was "borrowed" from Christmas? This would at least assume that the celebration (as opposed to passages in scripture which can be used as a foundation) of Hannukah was instituted only after the celebration of Christmas. Does anyone know?

Gerard Stafleu

Magdlyn · 08-02-2007, 05:18 AM

Yes, I've had practicing Jews tell me this.

In their orthodox view, there are several holidays God requires them to observe. Rosh Hoshanna, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, Pesach.

Then Shabbat weekly, of course.

There is Purim, (from Esther) which is a chance to dress up in costumes. Not a required celebration.

Hannukah was observed by Jews at the time of Jesus, to commemorate the rededication of the Temple at the beginning of Hasmonean rule, but only become big and commercialized when xmas did.

more:

http://www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm

Quote:

Chanukkah is not a very important religious holiday. The holiday's religious significance is far less than that of Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, Passover, and Shavu'ot. It is roughly equivalent to Purim in significance, and you won't find many non-Jews who have even heard of Purim! Chanukkah is not mentioned in Jewish scripture; the story is related in the book of Maccabees, which Jews do not accept as scripture...

Gift-giving is not a traditional part of the holiday, but has been added in places where Jews have a lot of contact with Christians, as a way of dealing with our children's jealousy of their Christian friends. It is extremely unusual for Jews to give Chanukkah gifts to anyone other than their own young children. The only traditional gift of the holiday is "gelt," small amounts of money.

RED DAVE · 08-02-2007, 05:20 AM

Actually, we borrowed it from Kwanzaa.

RED DAVE

John Kesler · 08-02-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstafleu

...my question is: is it true that Hannukah was "borrowed" from Christmas? This would at least assume that the celebration (as opposed to passages in scripture which can be used as a foundation) of Hannukah was instituted only after the celebration of Christmas.

The celebration of Hanukkah is mentioned in John 10:22. The NAB footnote for this verse follows:

Quote:

Feast of the Dedication: an eight-day festival of lights (Hebrew, Hanukkah) held in December, three months after the feast of Tabernacles (John 7:2), to celebrate the Maccabees' rededication of the altar and reconsecration of the temple in 164 B.C., after their desecration by Antiochus IV Epiphanes (Daniel 8:13; 9:27; cf 1 Macc 4:36-59; 2 Macc 1:18-2:19; 10:1-8).

Steven Avery · 08-02-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

The celebration of Hanukkah is mentioned in John 10:22

Very possibly. Since the name is the "Feast of Dedication" and Josephus does, I understand, indicate some about the Festival at the time.

Some have contended that the Dedication in John 10:22 goes back to a pre-Maccabee scriptural Temple dedication verse.

Assuming that :

John 10:22
And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

does relate to the Festival related by Josephus then one cannot claim any Christian origin for Hanukkah. Even though orthodox Jews today (especially the Haredim) often bypass Hanukkah completely as non-sanctioned and not to be observed. Note that they will also bypass many other Israeli holidays however they will observe days that are not from scripture if given rebbe or rabbinical sanction.

The nature of the celebration of Hanukkah has changed in the last century and it is often used by those Jews who observe it as a kind of counterweight to "Christmas". So those trappings (e.g. Hanukkah gifts and gelt) can easily be seen as mimicking questionable "Christian" practices. Some of the historic Reformation view (e.g. the Puritans and more in the USA) also had great distance from "Christmas" as popery, so there could be a Reformation-Haredim alliance

.

Shalom,
Steven

BALDUCCI · 08-04-2007, 07:04 PM

What amuses me is that anyone would regard Christopher Hitchens as an authority or even credible commentator on anything, especially stuff he knows nothing about (which is pretty well everything)

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08-02-2007, 05:20 AM	#3
RED DAVE Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 10,532	Actually, we borrowed it from Kwanzaa. RED DAVE

08-04-2007, 07:04 PM	#6
BALDUCCI Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: scotland Posts: 365	What amuses me is that anyone would regard Christopher Hitchens as an authority or even credible commentator on anything, especially stuff he knows nothing about (which is pretty well everything)

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