Adam

[Brackets indicate my comments]
Early Aramaic Gospels
[[In the context of FRDB’s controversy about Bart Ehrman’s claim of early Aramaic records about Jesus, my initial presentation here of the start two of the three of them naturally supports the HJ position. This also relates to my Gospel According to the Atheists as this includes three of the four sources I suggest, basically meeting Sheshbazzar’s demand long ago. The three Aramaic sources I call Early Aramaic Gospels do not include the fourth written Aramaic source which was later, the L source in Luke that was also by an eyewitness, but after a lapse of time that left many of the parables unclear. For links regarding this see
The Nature of Scholarship post #39
(For the bigger question of whether John is properly used for Historical Jesus analysis use the other thread, Splicing Q and John.)]]

Translations from Gospel of John by Howard M. Teeple, Literary Origin of the Gospel of John, Evanston, Ill: Religion and Science Institute, 1974
For quotations of Mark and Luke from the NRSV available at Bible.Oremus.org: http://www.devotions.net/bible/00bible.htm
‘New Revised Standard Version Bible: Anglicized Edition, copyright 1989, 1995, Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.’

[The selected Bible verses below from Luke are limited not just to Q origins, but specifically to my understanding of q1 as including only comparable verses in Matthew and Luke that are inexact and thus must stem from a written Aramaic text. To facilitate documentation in common with other scholars, I take Luke in textual order in the sayings identified as QS in Burton Mack’s The Lost Gospel of Q, 1993, which itself parallels Kloppenborg. Verses below from Mark I also regard as from Q hidden in the Triple-Tradition, thus qT, closely paralleling what some scholars call the Twelve-Source, and all the above as probably written by Matthew. All these verses are NRSV. ]
[ For my selected verses from John to be meaningful to scholars, I have felt compelled to use Howard M. Teeple’s wooden literal translation, limited almost exclusively to sources he labels “G” and “E”. John through John 17 as included here is basically the Johannine Discourses, up through John 10 apparently written by Nicodemus for a court case accusation against Jesus. John 18 through John 19 is the Passion Narrative (Teeple’s “S” and “G”, probably written by John Mark right after the events. John 20 is from my own analysis of the earliest source, likewise John Mark (NJB). ]

Luke 3
…John son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 He went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, 4 as it is written in the book of the words of the prophet Isaiah,
‘The voice of one crying out in the wilderness:
“Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be made low,
and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways made smooth;
6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.”

Mark 1
9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And just as he was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens torn apart and the Spirit descending like a dove on him. 11 And a voice came from heaven, ‘You are my Son, the Beloved;* with you I am well pleased.’
12 And the Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. 13 He was in the wilderness for forty days, tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels waited on him.
14 Now after John was arrested, Jesus came to Galilee, proclaiming the good news* of God,* 15 and saying, ‘The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near;* repent, and believe in the good news.’*
[Or for Mark 1:12-13 use longer reading from Luke 4:1-12]

Luke 4:
1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness, 2 where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing at all during those days, and when they were over, he was famished. 3 The devil said to him, ‘If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become a loaf of bread.’ 4 Jesus answered him, ‘It is written, “One does not live by bread alone.” ’ 5 Then the devil* led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And the devil* said to him, ‘To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.’ 8Jesus answered him, ‘It is written, “Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him.” ’
9 Then the devil* took him to Jerusalem, and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple, saying to him, ‘If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,
“He will command his angels concerning you, to protect you”, 11 and “On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.” ’ 12 Jesus answered him, ‘It is said, “Do not put the Lord your God to the test.” ’ 13 When the devil had finished every test, he departed from him until an opportune time.

John 3:
E 1 …Nicodemus, the name to him, an official of the Jews, ….3 Answered Jesus and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, G unless a person has been born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” E 4 Nicodemus says to him, “How can a man being old be born (again”? Can he enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born?” 5 Answered Jesus, “Truly, truly, I say to you, G unless a person has been born from E …the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. 6 The (thing) having been born from the flesh is flesh, and the (thing) having been born from the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, G 'It is necessary (that) you be born from above.' E 8 The Spirit blows where it wills, and you hear its voice, but you do not know whence it comes or where it goes. Thus is everyone having been born from the spirit.”

9 Answered Nicodemus and said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Answered Jesus and said to him, “Are you a teacher of Israel and do not know these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you that what we know we speak and what we have seen we testify (to), and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I tell you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?”

G 13 And no one has ascended into heaven except the one who has descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And even as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 in order that everyone believing in him may have life eternal.”

G? 16 For God thus loved the world that he gave the only begotten Son, in order that everyone believing on him might not perish but have life eternal. E 17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order that he might judge the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 The one believing on him is not judged; the one not believing has already been judged because he has not believed on the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
G? 19 And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world and men loved the Darkness rather than the Light, for their works were wicked. 20 For everyone committing evil hates the Light and does not come to the Light, in order that his works may not be exposed. 21 But the one doing the Truth comes to the Light in order that his works may be manifested that they have been worked in God.
[Preceding six verses or so seem to be later sermonizing, as do verses 26b through 36 that Teeple splits between G and E. John 4 is even more complicated and seems to include back-filled G and E segments. In any case it is not necessarily early.]

Mark 1:
29 As soon as they* left the synagogue, they entered the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. 30 Now Simon’s mother-in-law was in bed with a fever, and they told him about her at once. 31 He came and took her by the hand and lifted her up. Then the fever left her, and she began to serve them.

32 That evening, at sunset, they brought to him all who were sick or possessed with demons. 33 And the whole city was gathered around the door. 34 And he cured many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

35 In the morning, while it was still very dark, he got up and went out to a deserted place, and there he prayed. 36 And Simon and his companions hunted for him. 37 When they found him, they said to him, ‘Everyone is searching for you.’ 38 He answered, ‘Let us go on to the neighbouring towns, so that I may proclaim the message there also; for that is what I came out to do.’ 39 And he went throughout Galilee, proclaiming the message in their synagogues and casting out demons.

40 A leper* came to him begging him, and kneeling* he said to him, ‘If you choose, you can make me clean.’ 41 Moved with pity,* Jesus* stretched out his hand and touched him, and said to him, ‘I do choose. Be made clean!’ 42 Immediately the leprosy* left him, and he was made clean. 43 After sternly warning him he sent him away at once, 44 saying to him, ‘See that you say nothing to anyone; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer for your cleansing what Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.’ 45 But he went out and began to proclaim it freely, and to spread the word, so that Jesus* could no longer go into a town openly, but stayed out in the country; and people came to him from every quarter.

Mark 2
1 When he returned to Capernaum after some days, it was reported that he was at home. 2 So many gathered around that there was no longer room for them, not even in front of the door; and he was speaking the word to them. 3 Then some people* came, bringing to him a paralysed man, carried by four of them. 4 And when they could not bring him to Jesus because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him; and after having dug through it, they let down the mat on which the paralytic lay. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ 6 Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, 7 ‘Why does this fellow speak in this way? It is blasphemy! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ 8 At once Jesus perceived in his spirit that they were discussing these questions among themselves; and he said to them, ‘Why do you raise such questions in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, “Your sins are forgiven”, or to say, “Stand up and take your mat and walk”? 10 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins’—he said to the paralytic— 11 ‘I say to you, stand up, take your mat and go to your home.’ 12 And he stood up, and immediately took the mat and went out before all of them; so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, ‘We have never seen anything like this!’
[Now assuming Jesus did healings like this, but they occurred in Q as in Mark on the Sabbath, and comparably in Judea as follows in John 5:]

John 5:
E 10…And it was the Sabbath on that day. 19 Then the Jews were saying to the one having been healed, “It is the Sabbath and it is not lawful for you to Pick up your bed.” 11 And he answered them, :The one having made me well, that one said to me, “Pick up your bed and walk.” 12 They asked him, “Who is the man, the one having said to you ’Pick up and walk’?” 13 And the one having been healed did not know who it is…..15 The man went away and proclaimed to the Jews that Jesus is the one having made him well…. G 17 And he (Jesus) answered them, “My Father works until now, and I work.” …19 Then he answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing from himself, except what he sees the father doing. E For whatever that one does, these things also the Son does likewise. G 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows to him all things which he himself does, and greater works than thee he will show to him in order that you may marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and makes (them) alive, thus also the Son makes alive whom he wishes. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 in order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father. The one not honoring the Son does not honor the Father the one having sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you that the one hearing my word and believing the one having sent me has life eternal and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

E 25 Truly, truly, I say to you that the hour comes and now is when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and having heard, will live. G 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, thus also he has given to the Son to have Life in himself. 27 And he has given to him authority to make judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour comes in which all the ones in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and the ones having done good will go forth into the resurrection of life, the ones having committed evil (will go forth) into the resurrection of Judgment.
G 30 I can do nothing from myself; even as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my will but the will of the one having sent me. 31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another, the one testifying about me, and I know that true is the testimony which he testifies about me. E 33 You sent to John, and he has testified to the truth….35 That one was a burning and shining lamp, and you wanted to rejoice for an hour in his light…..

G 37 And the Father having sent me, has testified about me. Neither his voice have you ever heard nor his form have you seen. 38 and his word you do not have staying in you, E because whom that one sent you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures because you think (that ) in them you have life ete4rnal, and those are the ones testifying about me. 40 And you do not want to come to me In order that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from men. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God in yourselves. 43 I have come in the name of my Father, and you do not receive me. If another should come in his own name, that one you will receive. 44 How can you believe, receiving glory from one another, and you do not seek the glory, the one from the only (God)? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. The one accusing you is Moses, on whom you hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me. For that one wrote about me. 47 And if you do not believe the Scriptures of that one, how will you believe my words?”

Adam

[Returning to the original context, Galilee]
Mark 2:
13 Jesus* went out again beside the lake; the whole crowd gathered around him, and he taught them. 14 As he was walking along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, ‘Follow me.’ And he got up and followed him.
15 And as he sat at dinner* in Levi’s* house, many tax-collectors and sinners were also sitting* with Jesus and his disciples—for there were many who followed him. 16 When the scribes of* the Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax-collectors, they said to his disciples, ‘Why does he eat* with tax-collectors and sinners?’ 17 When Jesus heard this, he said to them, ‘Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call not the righteous but sinners.’

Mark 3:
13 He went up the mountain and called to him those whom he wanted, and they came to him. 14 And he appointed twelve, whom he also named apostles,* to be with him, and to be sent out to proclaim the message, 15 and to have authority to cast out demons. 16 So he appointed the twelve:* Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter); 17 James son of Zebedee and John the brother of James (to whom he gave the name Boanerges, that is, Sons of Thunder); 18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean, 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Then he went home; 20 and the crowd came together again, so that they could not even eat. 21 When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him, for people were saying, ‘He has gone out of his mind.’ 22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, ‘He has Beelzebul, and by the ruler of the demons he casts out demons.’ 23 And he called them to him, and spoke to them in parables, ‘How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26 And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but his end has come. 27 But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his property without first tying up the strong man; then indeed the house can be plundered. '

28 ‘Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin’— 30 for they had said, ‘He has an unclean spirit.’
Mark 3:
13 He went up the mountain and called to him those whom he wanted, and they came to him. 14 And he appointed twelve, whom he also named apostles,* to be with him, and to be sent out to proclaim the message, 15 and to have authority to cast out demons. 16 so he appointed the twelve:* Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter); 17 James son of Zebedee and John the brother of James (to whom he gave the name Boanerges, that is, Sons of Thunder); 18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean, 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Then he went home; 20 and the crowd came together again, so that they could not even eat. 21 When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him, for people were saying, ‘He has gone out of his mind.’ 22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, ‘He has Beelzebul, and by the ruler of the demons he casts out demons.’ 23 And he called them to him, and spoke to them in parables, ‘How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26 And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but his end has come. 27 But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his property without first tying up the strong man; then indeed the house can be plundered.'
28 ‘Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin’— 30for they had said, ‘He has an unclean spirit.’"

John 7:
S 6 Then Jesus says to them, G ” My time is not yet present, but your time is always ready. 7 The World is not able to hat you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil. 8…E I am not yet going up to this feast, because my time has not yet been fulfilled” …. 11 then the Jews were seeking him at the feast and were saying, ”Where is that one?” {12 And there was much murmuring about him in the crowd. Some were saying that “He is a good Man.” Others were saying, “But no, he leads the crowd astray.”} 13 Nevertheless, no one was speaking publicly about him on account of the Jews. 14 And already in the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and was teaching. 15 Then the Jews marveled, saying, “How does this one know letters, not having been taught?”

16 Then answered them Jesus and said, “My teaching is not mine but of the one having sent me. 17 If anyone wills to do his will, he shall know about the teaching, whether it is from God or I speak from myself. 18 The one speaking from himself seeks his own glory. But the one seeking the glory of the one having him, this one is true and unrighteousness is not in him.
E 19 Has not Moses given you the law? And no one of you does the law. Why do you seek to kill me?” 20 The crowd answered “You have a demon! Who seeks to kill you?” 21 Answered Jesus and said to them, “One work I did and you all marvel. 22 On account of this Moses has given to you circumcision…and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. 23 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath in order that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because I made a whole man well on the Sabbath? 24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge (with) righteous judgment.” 25 Then some of the Jerusalemites were saying, “Is not this one he whom they were seeking to kill? 26 And behold, he speaks publicly, and they say nothing to him. Have not the authorities truly known that this one is the Christ? 27 But we know whence (from Galilee) this one is; but when the Christ comes, no one will know whence he is.”

G 28 The Jesus cried out while teaching in the temple and saying, “And you know me whence (from heaven) I am. And I have not come from myself, but the one having sent me is true, E whom you do not know. 29 I know him, because I am from him and that one has sent me.” 30 Then they were seeking to seize, him, and no one laid a hand on him because his hour had not yet come. { 31 But many of the crowd believed on him, and they were saying, “When the Christ has come, will he not do more signs than this one has done?” 32 The Pharisees heard the crowd murmuring these things about him….}

G 33 Then Jesus said, E “Still a little time I am with you, and I go to the one having sent me. G You will seek me and not find; where I am you will not be able to come.” 35 Then the Jews said to themselves, “Where is this one about to go, that we will not find him: Is he about to go into the Diaspora of the Greeks and to teach the Greeks? 36 What is this word which he said, ‘You will seek me and you will not find’ and ‘where I am you are not able to come’?”
G 37 On the last day…of the feast Jesus stood and cried out saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38 The one believing on me, even as the Scripture said, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his belly.’”
E 39 And he said this about the Spirit which the ones believing on him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet (given), because Jesus was not yet glorified….

50 Says to them Nicodemus, the one coming to him first, being one of them, 51 “Does our Law not judge a man unless it first hears from him and knows what he does?” 52 They answered and said to him, “Are you also from Galilee? Search (the Scriptures) and see that a prophet is not to rise from Galilee.”

Luke 6:
20 Then he looked up at his disciples and said:
‘Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 ‘Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled.
‘Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
22 ‘Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude you, revile you, and defame you* on account of the Son of Man. 23 Rejoice on that day and leap for joy, for surely your reward is great in heaven; for that is what their ancestors did to the prophets.
27 ‘But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. 30 Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 ‘If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.* Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

39 He also told them a parable: ‘Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will not both fall into a pit? 40 A disciple is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully qualified will be like the teacher.

43 ‘No good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit; 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. Figs are not gathered from thorns, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. 45 The good person out of the good treasure of the heart produces good, and the evil person out of evil treasure produces evil; for it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.

46 ‘Why do you call me “Lord, Lord”, and do not do what I tell you? 47 I will show you what someone is like who comes to me, hears my words, and acts on them. 48 That one is like a man building a house, who dug deeply and laid the foundation on rock; when a flood arose, the river burst against that house but could not shake it, because it had been well built.* 49 But the one who hears and does not act is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against it, immediately it fell, and great was the ruin of that house.

Mark 3:
31 Then his mother and his brothers came; and standing outside, they sent to him and called him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him; and they said to him, ‘Your mother and your brothers and sisters* are outside, asking for you.’ 33 And he replied, ‘Who are my mother and my brothers?’ 34 And looking at those who sat around him, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother.’

Toto

I have told you several times that this phrase is stupid and offensive. Why do you continue to refer to the Gospel According to the Atheists? Which Atheists??

Where do you get this non sequitur? Do you think that Greek speakers are unable to paraphrase or rewrite texts?

This whole enterprise is based on false assumptions.

Adam

In the context of FRDB I have used that title so often that I cannot avoid it without confusing everyone. I have explained several times that I identified certain eyewitness sources that had minimal supernaturalism, so no atheists of any type (except aa with militant rejection of apologetic materials) could legitimately refuse to consider them. OK. I should have phrased it from the reverse direction, "q2 as including only comparable verses in Mt and Lk that are exact and thus must stem from a written Greek text." Thanks. Yes, it's quite possible that some verses I see as q1 are really paraphrased q2. Division between q1 and q2 is inexact, as comparing me with Mack will show. It gets much more complex if you bring Maurice Casey into the picture with his "chaotic Q". My own with q1, qT, and q2 is already stretching the limits of explainability.

Toto

That's now how things work. You can't remove the supernatural aspects from a fairy tale and claim that what remains is a true history. And you have not made the case that any of this goes back to eyewitnesses.

Please stop using the term. It is your reconstructed gospel, not an atheist's.

Grog

We can dismiss the obvious ahistorical elements of the Goldilocks story, but cannot, from those elements alone, conclude that there was not an actual forest-explorer known as Goldilocks, who began her excursions at a young age. Clearly, Goldilocks (fortuitously named as she must really have possessed golden tresses) did not wander aimlessly into the cottage of a family of "bears" out for a morning stroll while their porridge cooled. It must be the case that the "bears" were, in fact, less than civilized woodsy folk, probably slightly furry in appearance. Goldilocks, being a young child, upon recounting the adventure to her parents (similarly golden-haired, we might surmise from our modern knowledge of genetics), described these woodland, hairy people as "bears." Thus, our modern tale of "Goldilocks and the Three Bears."

We can make several important inference from this basic data, however, I will leave that project to others (or perhaps a point in the future when I have more time to do some concrete history).

Adam

Ok, Toto, let me parse this one as well. First, this thread "Early Aramaic Gospels" includes qT, so it is not the "GATTA" to which you object. Second, I did not myself derive the sources I acknowledge. Once having adopted seven-plus sources, I expressed my opinion that seven were from eyewitnesses and gave evidence particularly for two of the three that I present on this thread. It happens that two of these three (the Discourses and the Passion Narrative, both in gJohn) are relatively free of supernaturalism. The third is largely free of supernaturalism in its widely-recognized q1 portion. In what I recognize as its qT component (presented in my text only from gMark) there is supernaturalism. The rest of it could, by your principles, have actually occurred, so you need to consider what weight to attach to the evidence unless you do an aa and just define it as illegitimate. But what right do you have to do that when an apologetic source is found to contain a source that does not contain apology?

Toto

Translate that into English, please? qT? GATTA??

Will Wiley

GATTA. Gospel According To The Aardvarks

aa5874

Please, your statement about me is is error and should be IMMEDIATELY retracted.

I do NOT reject Apologetic Sources like Justin Martyr, Aristides, Theophilus of Antioch, Athenagoras of Athens, Minucius Felix, Tatian and Arnobius.

I DETEST when you make blatant known mis-leading statements about me. Please stop if you want to be taken seriously.