stephan huller

From THE THEORY OF A PRE-CHRISTIAN CULT OF JESUS Author(s): Arthur O. LovejoyReviewed work(s):Source:
The Monist,
Vol. 18, No. 4 (OCTOBER, 1908), pp. 597-609

http://www.scribd.com/doc/71612238/27900140

DCHindley

Although Lovejoy, in this book review, isn't buying W Benjamin Smith's "theory of a Pre-Christian cult of Jesus" (Wm Benjamin Smith, Der vorchristliche Jesus, nebst weiteren Vorstudien zur Entstehungsgeschichte des Urchristentums, 1906), I found the summary of Smith's major points to be rather interesting.

DCH

PhilosopherJay

Hi Stephen and DCHindley,

Yes, this was an interesting article.

What caught my attention was W. Benjamin Smith's understanding of the importance of Simon the Magician in the creation of Christianity.

Barbara Thiering came to a similar conclusion, "There can be no doubt, when all the sources are taken together, that Simon Magus was the towering figure in the time of Jesus." (see Simon Magus

She has identified Simon Magus as Lazarus. I would go a step further and say that Peter was substituted for Simon Magus and Lazarus was later substituted for Peter. The beloved resurrected disciple in both the Gospel of John and Secret Mark are also Peter, although, as the NT gospels never tire of telling us, Peter's original name was Simon. The contests between Peter and Simon in various texts are just meant to fool us into believing that they are not the same character.

It is my hypothesis that much of the material in the gospels derives from material involving Simon the Samaritan Magician. He appears to be the Beloved Disciple who has a sister/wife named Martha (Lady/Mistress), who is later called Helena because of her resemblance to Helen of Troy.

While John the Baptist is probably his teacher who resurrects him from the dead (see Clementine Homilies). I'm wondering if the stories might not reach back to Honi (yianni-John), the Circle Drawer. Honi, the Circle Drawer, was known to make it rain. It seems reasonable to assume he used a magician's wand to draw his circles.




From Museo Pio Cristiano sarcophagi. On the Left Simon Peter (Simon the Magician/Peter the Disciple) baptizes his jailers with his magician's wand by striking a rock, which is probably how Simon got the name "Rock" (Peter). In the center, Simon Peter is arrested with his wand. On the right, Jesus uses his wand. He appears to be changing water into wine. Anyone know who the boy might be?


Warmly,

Jay Raskin

aa5874

Such a statement is most laughable. The very time of Jesus is DOUBTFUL. There is NO apologetic source that has been found and dated to the time of Pilate the Governor and Caiaphas the high priest.

The time of Jesus was the 2nd century based on the Dated New Testament manuscripts.

Please, don't be fooled by 2nd/3rd century texts which appear to be from the 1st century. No Jesus story has been found and dated to any time in the 1st century.

ALL authors which claim to be disciples and followers of Jesus and Paul are FAKE 1st century writers in or outside the Canon.

mountainman

Hypostasis:

The term is never explicitly invoked until after Nicaea, and the sources indicate it was not invoked by the orthodox, but by the heretics. It is most completely developed in the 3rd century Enneads of the Platonic theologian Plotinus, whose logic and theology the heretics, including particularly Arius of Alexandria, devotedly followed.

Diogenes the Cynic

Honi was only have said to have drawn one circle, and it was not for magical purposes. According to the story, he drew a circle around himself, then prayed to God saying he would not move from the circle until God made it rain. The circle had nothing to do with making it rain, it was just a rhetorical device for the prayer.

Honi is not said to have performed any other miracles but praying for rain, and the stories make it clear that the rain was just God answering a prayer, not Honi performing magic.

How do you get "Yianni" out of "Choni," by the way?

stephan huller

Honi = Gk. Onias. The Hebrew root is hnn which is common to the name John too.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for this.

J.G Goldberg also caught the connection between Jesus and Honi. See Honi the Circle Drawer.

Diogenes the Cynic

The Hebrew name Choni has no relationship to the completely different name, Yochanan (well, they share a root if you really want to be pedantic, but they're still different names). There are several rabbis named Yochanan in the Talmud (the same Talmud which speaks of Honi the Circle Maker), and there is no transliteration (that I'm aware of) of Yochanan being translated into Greek with an aspirated omicron as the first letter.

Are you suggesting a version of Yochanan whith the first syllable elided, so that it becomes something like 'Chani,' or "Choni?"

sotto voce

The word is used by the author of Hebrews, and it is the only occurrence of the word used in this way in the Bible. It is therefore the only use that has any meaningful authority, anything else being very liable to be misinformation, usually deliberate imv. The comment made is that Jesus is the radiation or visual evidence of glory, and the exact representation (to mankind) of the (otherwise inaccessible) divine nature (that nature being love to the point of self-sacrifice, moreover). There is only one hypostasis, nature or 'substance'. To posit more than one hypostasis indicates polytheism, and rank paganism, from a biblical pov.

There being only one biblical divinity, who is ineffably glorious, Jesus must have been in his earthly manifestation the one person (or Person, according to taste) who is divine. It is not a question of there being a Father as a separate person, in a biological sense, that many, absurdly, still think is somehow the truth. 1500 years of polytheistic thinking have made accurate thinking on this hard to get used to. In the Bible, 'Jesus' is the Father as well as the Son. The Spirit is 'the Spirit of Jesus' also. Just one person, three relationships, and Sonship (i.e. atonement) is absolutely primary to the whole revelation, the whole Bible, because neither the fatherhood of 'Jesus' nor the communicating role of the Spirit of Jesus could even exist without the crucifixion.