Chaucer

My question has to do with midrash and the Gospel of Mark. The claim has been made that GMark is a form of midrash. Well, something occurred to me: It may be that some on this board are reasonably familiar with this midrashic tradition and that several here may not find the concept of midrash that hard to define. Now, I understand in a general way that midrash is an application in partly symbolic form of certain basic images and concepts found in Scripture, often as found in the Torah, but not exclusively so. Later books in the OT can also be a launch point.

Consequently, can anyone here please point to parallel examples of midrash being turned into account narratives like the ones some claim we find in the Synoptics? If Synoptics-like midrash is as common as some claim, there should be no problem in coming up with parallels in the same vein outside the Jesus narratives. I'm not asking for a rehash of the argument that Mark is midrash; I'm asking that someone produce a couple of the evident account-narrative parallels outside of the Jesus nexus altogether but still within the nexus of ancient Palestinian traditions.

Thank you,

Chaucer

show_no_mercy

I think there are some examples of midrash in the DSS writings. I think they're called "pesharim", which means "commentaries" or "interpretations". They rewrite the prophetics books to tell a new story. Most of them are reinterpretations to show that the good prophecies point towards the "Sons of Light" (the DSS community themselves) and all of the negative prophecies refer to the "Sons of Darkness" (probably one or some of the Hasmonean priest-kings).

That is what I read in some summaries of the DSS writings, at least.

Huon

Mk 9: 9-13 Coming of Elijah
Is it midrash ?

No Robots

In Sifre, Deut. 357 the periods of Hillel's life are made parallel to those in the life of Moses. Both were 120 years old; at the age of forty Hillel went to Palestine; forty years he spent in study; and the last third of his life he passed as the spiritual head of Israel. Of this artificially constructed biographical sketch this much may be true, that Hillel went to Jerusalem in the prime of his manhood and attained a great age. His activity of forty years is perhaps historical; and since it began, according to a trustworthy tradition (Shab. 15a), one hundred years before the destruction of Jerusalem, it must have covered the period 30 B.C. -10 C.E.--"Hillel", Jewish Encyclopedia.

charles

I don't think the Gospel of Mark is like a midrash as a midrash is defined at wikipedia as " is a homiletic method of biblical exegesis." The Gospel of Mark is more like a revelation. What would the context of the Biblical exegesis be here?

Chaucer

Good example. Thank you. This could, though, be argued as being a case of narrative midrash built around a real person (Hillel), whereas those pressing the midrash theory for the narrative Synoptics claim that the hero of the Synoptics is mythic rather than historic.

If someone wants to make the claim that Hillel too is mythic(!) and not historic, then one could could claim that we've found a real parallel to the claimed narrative midrash in the Synoptics in this example of Sifre, Deut. 357. But if there is no theory out there that Hillel is mythic too, then we will have to continue our search for a parallel to the kind of narrative midrash claimed by the mythers for the Synoptics. We will not have found such a parallel in Sifre, Deut. 357, after all.

Chaucer

No Robots

Ah, I see the challenge you have put out: find in Jewish midrash a wholly mythical personage who is given a semblance of historical reality. Heh. Cute challenge to the mythicists. Of course, from my perspective, the midrash in Hillel's biography tends to substantiate that the NT is dealing with a real human being who's biography is given a mythic twist. But mythicists are generally only interested in parallels where it suits there purpose.

Chaucer

But, I believe, a fair one. Not sure if anyone out there claims that Hillel is mythic(?), but if someone does, they may claim that you have found a parallel to what mythers claim for the Synoptics. Personally, I do go with the modern academic secular mainstream that Hillel is a real historic person, which means we will have to continue to look for a parallel to the kind of narrative midrash claimed for the Synoptics by the mythers. But your example is on the right track, and I appreciate the effort.

Excellent point (although we know there are some here who will not agree). Right now, I'm more interesting in additional narrative-midrash parallels, please. Thanks. (We may also hear something further here about Hillel's historicity; who knows?)

Chaucer

bacht

Ah, our favourite, the attack on motives, it never gets old does it? Smear the integrity of the opponent and you don't even have to consider the arguments. Much easier than real debate, and you get the field to yourself by TKO.

You guys should go into politics, they all operate like you

jgreen44

...unlike historicists who are notoriously impartial and always interested in parallels which run counter to their purposes.