Chili

But . . . but it was also good to delay the Reformation and allow that which they created to grow and mature to a height that will never be known again. Witches were the forerunners of the Reformation, which was bound to come but rather later than sooner and that is what the Inquisition was all about.

The bible tells us that Jesus 'died' to stop witchcraft among Jews who were led into the promised land long before Gods time and that is why they died, nonetheless (John 6 is on this). To be led into the promised land by a witch who 'parts the water' for us to get there is to be born again before Gods own time and thus from below as identified in Jn.1:13. This would be just contrary to the way Jesus showed us by walking on this same water to get there.

So really, witches were the anti-christ in person who fast forwarded a rebirth by parting the waters that equals the rape of Mary that they politely call the sin against the HS in the bible. In other words it is a rebirth from Eve instead of Mary and that is why and how hell becomes real on earth.

The Inquisition was real, but not bad, and as much as it was wrong to kill anyone was it also wrong to have even one witch survive. It would be something like 'bird flu" today except that here we are dealing with eternal life in the eye of the Inquisitor.

It was not a thought issue at all. The Inquisitor needed to make sure that witches and heretics would not disrupt the flock with salvation messages and hands-on trickery that, first, would scatter the flock, and second, send them to hell instead of heaven. Ie "where the carcass lies the vultures gather."

There is lots of imagery left that tell us even today how they identified witches and it doesn't take much to figure that one out (I kind of like their artistic expression on this).

Yes he did make this apology but that was just to the suffering souls in what he called a culture of death.

Chili

This is an atheist philosophy board where the definition of what it means to be a Christian can be discussed without offending anyone. Let me remind you here that Christians are supposed to have the mind of Christ and should be able to write their own Gospel. Ie, the Gospel transformed Jesus into Christ.

I make the distinction because when Catholics become Christians they are set free from the law and cannot sin (1John.3:9 etc). Until then are they sinners with the hope of salvation and will never (?) call themselves saved-sinners since that glorious day when they first believed.

Yes, call them "Evangelicals" if you want to but they do lean on the very Gospel that we read to say what they have to say. My distinction is made to isolate them (not in person but just their theory) and condemn their methods as a form, or forms of, spiritual fornication that will not lead to eternal life but rather death after having been made aware of the reality that is called eternal life.

So yes, they have intimations of immortality but will never be able to "finish the race" and have this life.

It is just a position I hold for the sake of argument.

sorompio

So this is religion without mask. This is Christianity. Right? As bloodthirsty, superstitious and horrid as we know it. No remorse for killing innocent women, no remorse at all for every victim in the name of Jesus, no regret for the ignorance, the brutality and the lies. If religion drove Inquisitors to do what they did and still be ok with their conscience... well, it is very clear what's that religion worth of...

Chili

Wrong. It is an argument in defense of Catholicism without a mask. But that is what philosophy is all about and I don't think that you should get upset over it.

Nothing was done in the name of Jesus. That is protestant theology. The Inquisitor defended the Gospel on behalf of the Church in Christendom where the official religion was Catholic. Let me remind you that religion doesn't drive the Church which is Infallible so you might know who is in charge here.

If innocent women were killed they made a mistake. I have no problem with that but how do you know that they were innocent?

I think the bloodthirsty killing as you know it today is not Catholic in origin.

sorompio

Everything was done in the name of Jesus. In case you don't know Spanish, the formula that opens every procedure is "En el nombre del Padre, del Hijo y del EspÃ*ritu Santo" (in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost).

Since witchery is nothing more that superstition, all of them were innocent.

Chili

Nothing in Catholicism is done in the name of Jesus because Christ was the son and not Jesus. They crucified him remember? Witches are Jesus worshipers: "This [the previous passages] is what sustains the holy ones who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" (Rev.14:12) -- in case you want to know how the bible identifies witches.

ETA, to keep the commandments and have faith in Jesus is the public profession of a witch that they herald from midheaven through which they soar on their home spun private pope mobile (this would be their private bundle of passages that they brewed into a salvation recipe whereon they soar as if afloat and to which they cling when they crash at the foot of cross and die there nonetheless). You may read about this in Rev.14:6-11 which are the passages leading to the line I cited above. Of course it is superstition but it is the cause of most wars. Let me now add that Catholic-ism ends when Christian-ity begins in the life of a Catholic, while it gets serious [and mean] in the life of most protestant in their denominations.

Oh yes, Catholic-ism ends in the life of a Catholic when Christian-ity begins in the same way as Juda-ism ended for Jesus the son of Joseph when he became Christian. IOW, that is what "follow me" means and that does not include 'worship me.'

But you don't really want to know do you?

Chili

But this is not about insults at all. Galileo's world was very flat to think that heaven and earth have anything to do with the physical shape of the planet earth and worse yet to agree that the shape of heaven is round.

Chili

Theirs was a culture of death without a genesis of its own. All they did was zap devout Catholic believers into jolly Jesus jumpers. Sounds familiar?

Here is how they did it:Notice that the "immense vivifying energy" that was transmitted also inspired those who witnessed it. This is evidence and proof that they had been on a downward spiral to be revived by watching it happen to others as it reminded them of the time they first believed when they first saw the light that left them never to be seen again.

The Church called this spiritual fornication which might be America's favorite sport (just watch Benny Hin in action) but is a sure ticket to hell in Catholicism.

More here.http://http://gnosistraditions.faithweb.com/mont.html

Now let me add that it is not so evil to get zapped in the head by an evangelist but it gets much worse when they go to war to clean up the world so Jesus Christ will soon come back to bring them relief from this enduring pain and suffering.

sorompio

Surrealistic, indeed.

Chili

Yes they were after heretics but it was allowed to be a heretic in freedom 'from' religion but not in freedom 'of' religion. Your thoughts did not count until you acted upon them and started bewitching innocent believers who were very susceptible towards such spiritual fornication (premature awakening). Witchcraft makes reference to the crafty and cunning way that Catholics were tricked into 'accepting Jesus' as their Lord and savior by the evangelist, to put it in our modern perspective.

Oh but there is. First of all, the carcass was their prey ("where the carcass lies the vultures will gather").

What in effect they did is best demonstated with an allegory wherein believers are being led towards metamorphosis by the church from where they are expected to emerge like a butterfly with wings. Witches have been through this experience except that they have immature wings because someone had opened their cocoon before natures own time (here called Gods time as in Songs 2:7 etc.). The result of this is that they can flutter but not soar like an eagle wherefore their they keep falling (the familiar yo-yo effect in charismatic circles) and eventually will either walk away from it or crash at the foot of the cross and there just oxidize until they die. We do not believe in withcraft because it is normal in America to be a witch. Fair enough but if it is better to be an eagle with wings than hungry locust should we not let the eagle have the last word?