Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Pragmatista · 11-28-2007, 05:22 PM

Dead Crocodile Scrolls

This newsgroup post...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...72772e67f54439

An excerpt...

The New Testament books were in wide circulation within the lifetime of the Apostles. Even the Gospel of John, one of the later books, is known to have been in wide use before AD 80. This was a very amusing result of biblical archeology--for 100 years, the modernists had been laying down the law that John was an imaginative mid-second century retelling. Then part of a manuscript of John was discovered in the wrappings of a mummified Egyptian sacred crocodile, dated very accurately to AD 80. So within living memory of the events recounted, John's gospel had been around long enough to have travelled from the Aegean islands to Egypt, and for the Egyptian manuscript to have completely worn out. The response of the modernists? ... (crickets chirping) ....

Remember that all but one of those same Apostles, as well as a great many of their close associates, were tortured and murdered one by one for proclaiming the Gospel. That's widely attested in pagan sources and (iirc) in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus too. Odd thing, letting yourself get murdered over a bedtime story, no?

I don't want to attack this guy, as he is deservedly a highly respected guru in the technical realm. But I am curious about this crocodile gospel? Has anybody heard of it? My google search came up dry.

Toto · 11-28-2007, 06:03 PM

This sounds massively confused.

There were some important scraps of papyrus found in the belly of a mummified crocodile, but they were just shopping lists, commercial letters, etc. This waste paper, was, however, instrumental for linguists in figuring out that the Greek of the NT was not a ghostly version of classical Greek, but just the common Greek of the marketplace.

Standard explanation

Quote:

We are told that formerly Greek Scholars thought that the New Testament was written in what they called "Holy Ghost Greek". This was because they were not able to find, in the classical Greek texts available to them, a language structure similar to that found in the New Testament. That idea continued until a grave site for stuffed sacred crocodiles was unearthed in Egypt. What Archeologists found in the bellies of these mummified crocodiles was waste paper from the waste baskets of the first century. As they deciphered these common man's letters, bills, contracts, etc. they quickly noted that the language style was the same as found in the New Testament. So they gave this type of literature a new name, "Koine Greek" - the language of the "common" people.

There was also a small piece of papyrus found that contains a small section that has been identified as part of the Gospel of John, but it has been dated paleographically to 100-150 CE, not 80.

youngalexander · 11-28-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There was also a small piece of papyrus found that contains a small section that has been identified as part of the Gospel of John, but it has been dated paleographically to 100-150 CE, not 80.

Is this P52? I have just done a quick google but cannot see anything about crocodiles.

Toto · 11-28-2007, 06:18 PM

Yes, P52 was found in Egypt but not AFAIK in a crocodile.

Ben C Smith · 11-28-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There was also a small piece of papyrus found that contains a small section that has been identified as part of the Gospel of John, but it has been dated paleographically to 100-150 CE, not 80.

I would probably expand that range for P52 a bit. Middle of century II, give or take 50 years. So 100-200. (Or century IV, if your name is Pete Brown.)

Ben.

Pragmatista · 11-28-2007, 06:42 PM

Thanks.

On an amusing note, maybe this explains the persecution of the apostles. When they said: "Feed St. John to the crocodiles," it really meant feeding his book to the crocodiles.

11-28-2007, 05:22 PM	#1
Pragmatista Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Posts: 622	Dead Crocodile Scrolls? Dead Crocodile Scrolls This newsgroup post... http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...72772e67f54439 An excerpt... The New Testament books were in wide circulation within the lifetime of the Apostles. Even the Gospel of John, one of the later books, is known to have been in wide use before AD 80. This was a very amusing result of biblical archeology--for 100 years, the modernists had been laying down the law that John was an imaginative mid-second century retelling. Then part of a manuscript of John was discovered in the wrappings of a mummified Egyptian sacred crocodile, dated very accurately to AD 80. So within living memory of the events recounted, John's gospel had been around long enough to have travelled from the Aegean islands to Egypt, and for the Egyptian manuscript to have completely worn out. The response of the modernists? ... (crickets chirping) .... Remember that all but one of those same Apostles, as well as a great many of their close associates, were tortured and murdered one by one for proclaiming the Gospel. That's widely attested in pagan sources and (iirc) in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus too. Odd thing, letting yourself get murdered over a bedtime story, no? I don't want to attack this guy, as he is deservedly a highly respected guru in the technical realm. But I am curious about this crocodile gospel? Has anybody heard of it? My google search came up dry.

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11-28-2007, 06:18 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Yes, P52 was found in Egypt but not AFAIK in a crocodile.

11-28-2007, 06:42 PM	#6
Pragmatista Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Posts: 622	Thanks. On an amusing note, maybe this explains the persecution of the apostles. When they said: "Feed St. John to the crocodiles," it really meant feeding his book to the crocodiles.

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