aa5874

In the Pauline Epistles a character or characters called themselves apostles but it was not established how these Pauline writers became apostles.

In the Synoptics Jesus had ONLY 12 apostles whom he hand-picked.

Matthew 10.2-4 Now, after Judas had betrayed Jesus and did not return, based on the story in Acts, the other apostles and disciples picked a replacement apostle, Matthias, in the place of Judas.

Acts 1.21-26 So based on Acts, only one apostle was chosen to replace Judas and his name was Matthias not Saul or Paul and it was required that TO BE QUALIFIED Mathias had to have been with Jesus from baptism to ascension.

And the selection of ONLY one additional apostle, in the story, implied that there was no need for another apostle since there were now 12 apostles of Jesus.

But, there is a major problem for the Pauline writer.

Jesus Christ had no real apostles. Jesus Christ did not exist.

The story of the 12 apostles in the Gospels is fiction.

The story in Acts about the chosing of the 12th apostle is also fiction.

Matthias could not have been with JESUS from the baptism to the ascension of Jesus.

So, in fiction stories, Jesus Christ had only 12 apostles and it is established in Acts that ONLY 12 apostles were required yet Paul claimed he was an apostle.

Romans 1:1 - The Pauline writer LIED. He was not even named among the 12 apostles in the fiction story books in the NT Canon.

And he could not have been chosen to be an apostle since Jesus and the apostles, including Matthias were fiction characters.

There was no actual apostle called Paul in the history of Jesus believers.

Rick Van Vliet

Jesus definitely existed. Far from clear there's any history to 12 disciples, and the lists in the different Christian Gospels are different.

Paul killed many if not most of the original disciples. Say so in Acts. He says he converted, but he continuted to debate the surviving disciples he didn't kill.

He appointed himself apostle.

Toto

Paul killed the original disciples? This is unknown to Christian history. Where are you getting this?

aa5874

Please provide a source of antiquity that can substantiate your claim that Jesus existed.

You are NOT allowed to just guess or you will become a victim of your own imagination.


Please name some of the disciples that Paul killed and the source of antiquity that claimed Paul killed many of the disciples.

You appear to have become a victim of your imagination. It would seem that whatever you imagine is your history.

Which Paul appointed himself?

All of them?

Which apostle wrote the Epistle to Timothy?

There were many Pauls so be specific.

Rick Van Vliet

Acts of the Apostles.

"7:57But they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears,
and rushed at him with one accord. 7:58They threw him out of the
city, and stoned him. The witnesses placed their garments at the
feet of a young man named Saul. 7:59They stoned Stephen as he called
out, saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my Spirit!" 7:60He kneeled down,
and cried with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against
them!" When he had said this, he fell asleep.

8:1Saul was consenting to his death. A great persecution arose
against the assembly which was in Jerusalem in that day. They were
all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria,
except for the apostles. 8:2Devout men buried Stephen, and lamented
greatly over him. 8:3But Saul ravaged the assembly, entering into
every house, and dragged both men and women off to prison.
8:4Therefore those who were scattered abroad went around preaching
the word."["...Simon the Magician Story..."]"9:1But Saul, still breathing
threats and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high
priest, 9:2and asked forletters from him to the synagogues of Damascus,
that if he found anywho were of the Way, whether men or women, he might
bring them boundto Jerusalem."

"26:9"I myself most assuredly thought that I ought to do many things
contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 26:10This I also did in
Jerusalem. I both shut up many of the saints in prisons, having
received authority from the chief priests, and when they were put to
death I gave my vote against them. 26:11Punishing them often in all
the synagogues, I tried to make them blaspheme. Being exceedingly
enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities."

There's more of the same in Acts, and the "genuine" letters of Paul.

Rick Van Vliet

You mean more than the evidence that Socrates existed? You are aware paper rots, right?

We have numerous physical copies about Jesus created within 150 years of his death. There's nothing within 1000 years of Socrates' death.

Josephus says he existed, some may be added, but far more was probably subtracted.

Nero blamed the burning of Rome on the Christians, a couple decades after the cross. They had already spread across the empire.

Hope that helps.

Toto

You can trace the earliest stories of Christian disciples and martyrs, and none of them are said to be slaughtered by Paul.

http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/martyrs.htm

Please quote from Paul's letters. Acts is overwraught drama.

mountainman

The historicity of the Neronian persecution of "The Nation of Christians" is very far from certain, and the implied assumption that this "Nation of Christians" had already spread across the empire in the late 1st century is thus also very far from certain.

Rick Van Vliet

You didn't know it's all through the letters too? For instance, Galations...

1:13For you have heard of my way
of living in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond
measure I persecuted the assembly of God, and ravaged it. 1:14I
advanced in the Jews' religion beyond many of my own age among my
countrymen, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my
fathers.... 2:6....they, I say, who were respected imparted nothing
to me,...James and Cephas and John

Rick Van Vliet

Nothing is certain in history, but to the extent we know what the Roman emperors said, when not written in stone, Nero blamed the fire on the Christians.

There was also the Jews being banned from Rome only a few years after the cross, because of the troublesome followers of a Crestus, but that's not certain to be Christians.

Jesus was international almost immediately. After Paul slaughtering all the local followers, where the only ones preaching were abroad, he had to go abroad to finish them off. Went to the High Priest for the authority, etc.