Killjoy

I am looking for some good, high quality biblical contradictions. Preferably only serious ones, the kind that might be used in a legitimate argument on the veracity of the Bible. Nothing that might easily be construed as a misunderstanding, a mistranslation or a simple paradox. Also, only ones that are strictly internal - nothing that relies on references to non-biblical sources of truth, however well established.

To start off, here is one of my favourites

Deuteronomy|32:4 He is the Rock his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
and
Corinthians-1|14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

versus

Thessalonians-2|2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

animus

You might want to try The Skeptics Annotated Bible. I know they have contradictions there, but you may have to weed through them a little to get only internal ones.

inquisitive01

What is it (exactly) you see that's contradictory about that the Verses above from Deuteronomy, Corinthians, and Thessalonians? Also, IF these are indeed contradictions, why can't you find others like you found these (without asking for help)?

Killjoy

If you can't see what is contradictory about the notion of a "God of truth" who sends "strong delusions" to people, then I'm not sure how to begin explaining it to you. In any case, the whole idea of God sending "strong delusions" casts doubt on the idea that the Bible must be true simply by virtue of being the word of God.

There are many other contradictions in the Bible which I could have used, some more serious than others. I simply wanted to open the floor for others to join in. And attempts by Christians to explain the contradictions are, of course, welcome.

Magus55

You're problem with the Thessalonian's is that you're assuming the verse means God is sending a strong delusion to purposely deceive people, which as can be seen from the previous verse, isn't the case.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The verse in question is referring to God giving people over to their desires. He will give them the lie that they want, since they do not want the truth.

Romans 1 explains this.

Killjoy

I don't see that any of this diminishes the contradiction implicit in the passages of the OP. In order to do that you would have to show (or at least suggest) that a "god of truth" is consistent with a god who tells, sends, permits, allows, encourages, overlooks, etc, lies, delusions, illusions, untruths, falsehoods, fibs, etc. And if you are willing to do this, you have still undermined the notion that God is trustworthy, which is the basis of Christian faith. The notion that His truthfulness might conditional on people already knowing, believing or even wanting the truth does not help. Mortal humans, as I understand it, are not meant to be "of truth" by themselves - hence their need for God.
You need to understand that this thread was started in response to an argument in another thread where it was suggested that the Bible is not only the source of all truth, not only the ONLY source of all truth, but the absolute foundation of all truth, without which the very concept of truth is meaningless.

inquisitive01

The term delusion, which seems to be the key word you're referring to in these Verses, can also be defined as elusion OR frustration. If you see the definition of these two words (especially frustrate, or frustration), then the meaning of these verses takes on a different meaning that that of deceit.

Btw, thank you for welcoming Christians into this discussion also. :thumbs:

Jack the Bodiless

The one I frequently use is the contradiction between a "perfectly just" God and the one who punishes people for the sins of others.

"Justice" must involve matching a punishment to a crime, and inflicting it upon the perpetrator of the crime. If I impose a death penalty for sneezing, and Joe sneezes, and I execute Bob for it: regardless of whether you think that death is an appropriate punishment for sneezing, Bob wasn't the one who sneezed. Therefore this cannot be just.

Of course, this is a common theme throughout the Bible: from God punishing all humanity for Adam and Eve's transgression, right up to Jesus dying "for our sins".

And eternal punishment can't be an appropriate level of punishment for a finite crime anyhow, so there is simply no sense in which God can possibly be described as "just".

Sven

Judas death. Three contradictions in only a few verses.
And the apologetics for these are mostly laughable.

Dean Anderson

I wouldn't bother with the Skeptics Annotated Bible unless you are prepared to check every verse that they quote.

Some of the things that they claim to be 'contradictions' are laughable.

Unfortunately, many Christian apologists will sieze a few of these poor attempts at finding contradictions and refute them - then they will declare that, by using these 'representative' examples, they have demonstrated that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

There are deep and serious contradictions in the Bible that cannot be answered by apologists without brain-twisting 'what-if' additions to scripture (I thought they weren't supposed to add to scripture?)

However, you will need to actually read the Bible and look at the contexts that verses are in rather than just taking a couple of random verses (or even partial verses) out of context and putting them side by side to show that they appear to say different things - which is what the Skeptic's Annotated Bible does.