Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Matthew_Green · 06-03-2004, 10:18 PM

I am a fan of Robert Price. I have read quite a bit of his material. I purchased his book Deconstructing Jesus. He argues in the closing chapter that the gospels seem to correspond almost virtually point by point with the Mythic Hero Archetype with very little left over to serve as historical data. I get the impression that this forms part of his agnosticism towards the existence of any historical Jesus person. I was wondering if women discovering the empty tomb of the mythic hero is a common theme of the M.H.A? Is the discovery of an empty tomb by women common in mythic hero biographies? How about any post-martem appearances of the hero (thought to be killed) to disciples? Are any of these (women discovering empty tombs, post-martem appearances to followers/skeptics) common themes in any apotheosis narratives?

Matthew

Toto · 06-04-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_the_Freethinker

I am a fan of Robert Price. I have read quite a bit of his material. I purchased his book Deconstructing Jesus. He argues in the closing chapter that the gospels seem to correspond almost virtually point by point with the Mythic Hero Archetype with very little left over to serve as historical data. I get the impression that this forms part of his agnosticism towards the existence of any historical Jesus person. I was wondering if women discovering the empty tomb of the mythic hero is a common theme of the M.H.A? Is the discovery of an empty tomb by women common in mythic hero biographies? How about any post-martem appearances of the hero (thought to be killed) to disciples? Are any of these (women discovering empty tombs, post-martem appearances to followers/skeptics) common themes in any apotheosis narratives?

Matthew

From Christ a fiction

Quote:

Specifically, the passion stories of the gospels strike me as altogether too close to contemporary myths of dying and rising savior gods including Osiris, Tammuz, Baal, Attis, Adonis, Hercules, and Asclepius. Like Jesus, these figures were believed to have once lived a life upon the earth, been killed, and risen shortly thereafter. Their deaths and resurrections were in most cases ritually celebrated each spring to herald the return of the life to vegetation. In many myths, the savior's body is anointed for burial, searched out by holy women and then reappear alive a few days later.

Similarly, the details of the crucifixion, burial and resurrection accounts are astonishingly similar to the events of several surviving popular novels from the same period in which two lovers are separated when one seems to have died and is unwittingly entombed alive. Grave robbers discover her reviving and kidnap her. Her lover finds the tomb empty, graveclothes still in place, and first concludes she has been raised up from death and taken to heaven. Then, realizing what must have happened, he goes in search of her. During his adventures, he is sooner or later condemned to the cross or actually crucified, but manages to escape. When at length the couple is reunited, neither, having long imagined the other dead, can quite believe the lover is alive and not a ghost come to say farewell.

Also Of Men and Myth (the full text of this used to be online IIRC.)

I don't know the details behind all of this. Price may be referring to Isis seaching for Horus when he talks about the body being "searched out by holy women."

The specific plot device of an empty tomb as evidence of a resurrection to the doubting public seems to be unique to Christians, but may be based on the Hellenistic stories of the time.

Matthew_Green · 06-07-2004, 11:37 PM

Totos,

Thanks for the quote and references. I studied a few Christian apologetics books when I was a teenager and some of the arguments that Christians would say proved that the resurrection of Christ was the best explanation was that women were the first witnesses to the tomb and they were considered unreliable and hence we are dealing with sober, objective history in the gospels because no one would include something damaging to their case if this hadn't happened. Christians and their apologists also appeal to the appearance of Christ to groups in both the gospels and in 1st Corinthians 15 as a proof that Jesus had risen from the dead. They argue that it's unlikely/impossible that groups of people simultaneously would've experienced the same hallucination, ergo- the followers had objective visions of a risen Jesus.

However, if women visiting an empty tomb of a mythic hero was a common theme in apotheosis narratives and acient hero biographies as well as any post-martem appearances to grieving disciples (wether individually or in groups) this may demonstrate that the "law of biographical analogy" is at work. Apologists can't argue for women visiting empty tombs or group apparitions of the mythic hero to followers after death or heavenly ascensions of the hero as historical evidence for Christianity without at the same time arguing that also that all other apotheosis narratives are true and other mythic heroes rose from the dead and ascended into the heavens. They can't argue that Christianity is true without special pleading.

Matthew

06-03-2004, 10:18 PM	#1
Matthew_Green Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Manteca Posts: 175	Apotheosis I am a fan of Robert Price. I have read quite a bit of his material. I purchased his book Deconstructing Jesus. He argues in the closing chapter that the gospels seem to correspond almost virtually point by point with the Mythic Hero Archetype with very little left over to serve as historical data. I get the impression that this forms part of his agnosticism towards the existence of any historical Jesus person. I was wondering if women discovering the empty tomb of the mythic hero is a common theme of the M.H.A? Is the discovery of an empty tomb by women common in mythic hero biographies? How about any post-martem appearances of the hero (thought to be killed) to disciples? Are any of these (women discovering empty tombs, post-martem appearances to followers/skeptics) common themes in any apotheosis narratives? Matthew

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06-07-2004, 11:37 PM	#3
Matthew_Green Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Manteca Posts: 175	Totos, Thanks for the quote and references. I studied a few Christian apologetics books when I was a teenager and some of the arguments that Christians would say proved that the resurrection of Christ was the best explanation was that women were the first witnesses to the tomb and they were considered unreliable and hence we are dealing with sober, objective history in the gospels because no one would include something damaging to their case if this hadn't happened. Christians and their apologists also appeal to the appearance of Christ to groups in both the gospels and in 1st Corinthians 15 as a proof that Jesus had risen from the dead. They argue that it's unlikely/impossible that groups of people simultaneously would've experienced the same hallucination, ergo- the followers had objective visions of a risen Jesus. However, if women visiting an empty tomb of a mythic hero was a common theme in apotheosis narratives and acient hero biographies as well as any post-martem appearances to grieving disciples (wether individually or in groups) this may demonstrate that the "law of biographical analogy" is at work. Apologists can't argue for women visiting empty tombs or group apparitions of the mythic hero to followers after death or heavenly ascensions of the hero as historical evidence for Christianity without at the same time arguing that also that all other apotheosis narratives are true and other mythic heroes rose from the dead and ascended into the heavens. They can't argue that Christianity is true without special pleading. Matthew

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