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Old 04-13-2001, 08:21 PM   #1
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Post Secret Mark Photos

For those interested in Secret Mark, the Westar Institute just made the "new" color photographs of Secret Mark available (though they are small) on their website: Article with link to photos.

This article is somewhat misleading. It seems to imply that the color photos are new. I have it on good authority that the pictures are not new, just never seen before now. I believe the full article in The Fourth R gives the actual date of the photos.

Ish
 
Old 04-14-2001, 09:56 AM   #2
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ish:
For those interested in Secret Mark, the Westar Institute just made the "new" color photographs of Secret Mark available (though they are small) on their website: Article with link to photos.

This article is somewhat misleading. It seems to imply that the color photos are new. I have it on good authority that the pictures are not new, just never seen before now. I believe the full article in The Fourth R gives the actual date of the photos.

Ish
</font>
The following is what the Westar Institute states:

The Secret Gospel of Mark

New Photographs, New Witnesses

New full color photographs of the missing Secret Gospel of Mark, recently published by the Westar Institute in California, are now available on Westar's website by clicking on the link above. Information about the photographs and the story behind them can be found The Fourth R 13,5 a special issue of Westar's membership magazine.

The photos support the claims of former Columbia University Professor Morton Smith to have found extracts from this lost version of Mark's Gospel at Mar Saba monastery outside Jerusalem in 1958. The document found by Smith mentions secret teachings not made available to ordinary church members, as well as denying claims that converts engaged in same-sex relations as part of their initiation into the church.

Smith's discovery was always controversial: due to its contents and because no other Western scholar had ever seen the original texts. Some scholars even suspected that the text was a hoax. Others considered "Secret Mark" gave a valuable insight into the earliest history of the books that would later comprise the Christian Bible. Smith died in 1991.

During the Fall 2000 meeting of the Jesus Seminar at the Flamingo Hotel, Santa Rosa, October 48, Charles W. Hedrick, Professor of Religious Studies & Distinguished Scholar, Southwest Missouri State University, reported on the discovery. Hedrick has worked closely with Professor Nikolaos Olympiou of the University of Athens since 1990 to secure these new photographs, which were taken by Kallistos Dourvas, a former librarian at the Greek Patriarchate Library in Jerusalem.


It is important to note that these photos were taken by someone other than Morton Smith himself. Ostensibly, the "new photographs" were taken by a disinterested individual who worked as a librarian.

rodahi


 
Old 04-14-2001, 06:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ish:
For those interested in Secret Mark, the Westar Institute just made the "new" color photographs of Secret Mark available (though they are small) on their website: Article with link to photos.

This article is somewhat misleading. It seems to imply that the color photos are new. I have it on good authority that the pictures are not new, just never seen before now. I believe the full article in The Fourth R gives the actual date of the photos.

Ish
</font>
Are the photographs doctored or are they genuine? Is there any evidence of digital manipulation or fakery? Can we believe "the actual date" of the photos, especially since the Jesus Seminar--which publishes the magazine they are found in--is composed of a liberal renegade group of self-styled "biblical scholars." Has the Westar Institute "just made" the photographs available or have they been out for some time? And why did they seem to publish them just now? Who is really behind this? Are there any closeted homosexuals involved in this? After all, wasn't Morton Smith a homosexual himself? And what ABOUT this Clement of Alexandria anyway?

All in didactic fun,

aikido7
 
Old 04-14-2001, 10:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ish:
For those interested in Secret Mark, the Westar Institute just made the "new" color photographs of Secret Mark available (though they are small) on their website: Article with link to photos.

This article is somewhat misleading. It seems to imply that the color photos are new. I have it on good authority that the pictures are not new, just never seen before now. I believe the full article in The Fourth R gives the actual date of the photos.

Ish
</font>
So Smith made up a text and took a picture of it, So what? If that's even it, you can't tell. IT looks like it might look, it's in the page of a book not a scroll which is authentic for that calim. But it's also hard to tell anything more about it.
 
Old 04-14-2001, 10:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ish:
For those interested in Secret Mark, the Westar Institute just made the "new" color photographs of Secret Mark available (though they are small) on their website: Article with link to photos.

This article is somewhat misleading. It seems to imply that the color photos are new. I have it on good authority that the pictures are not new, just never seen before now. I believe the full article in The Fourth R gives the actual date of the photos.

Ish
</font>
It really doens't look like Greek. What langauge did he say it was in? Wouldn't monks write in Greek in an Orthodox Monestary? It could be there are little accent marks over the script, but could be French too.
 
Old 04-15-2001, 06:09 AM   #6
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Metacrock:
So Smith made up a text and took a picture of it, So what? If that's even it, you can't tell. IT looks like it might look, it's in the page of a book not a scroll which is authentic for that calim. But it's also hard to tell anything more about it.</font>
You have no idea what you are talking about, Metacrock. Where did you get the idea that Morton Smith claimed anything about a scroll?

rodahi

 
Old 04-15-2001, 06:18 AM   #7
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ish:
For those interested in Secret Mark, the Westar Institute just made the "new" color photographs of Secret Mark available (though they are small) on their website: Article with link to photos.
This article is somewhat misleading. It seems to imply that the color photos are new. I have it on good authority that the pictures are not new, just never seen before now. I believe the full article in The Fourth R gives the actual date of the photos.

Ish


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Metacrock: It really doens't look like Greek. What langauge did he say it was in? Wouldn't monks write in Greek in an Orthodox Monestary? It could be there are little accent marks over the script, but could be French too.

Do a little research on this before giving your uninformed opinion. NO ONE to my knowledge has ever questioned the FACT that the words appear to be written in the Greek of an ancient period. Morton Smith states he went to numerous scholars in an attempt to confirm the authenticity of the Greek used by the writer.

Now, you consider the words to be possibly written in the French language and that they should have been written on a scroll. READ one of Smith's books on the subject, then come back and post with an informed opinion.

rodahi




[This message has been edited by rodahi (edited April 15, 2001).]
 
Old 04-15-2001, 02:34 PM   #8
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Meta,

I've done quite a bit of research on this. The MS is written in an 18th century miniscule greek (whether forged or not, I can't tell). It is sort of a cursive Greek that is very hard to read. I, myself, have read the black and white photos. The words are Greek and Morton Smith's English translation is accurate.

The text is assumed to have been written down by a Monk on the back pages of a 17th century book sometime around the 18th century.

Regardless, Meta, you're right in that we have no original yet with which to compare these photographs. So, who really knows...

Ish

[This message has been edited by Ish (edited April 15, 2001).]
 
Old 04-17-2001, 12:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ish:
Meta,


Regardless, Meta, you're right in that we have no original yet with which to compare these photographs. So, who really knows...

Ish

[This message has been edited by Ish (edited April 15, 2001).]
</font>
We have no originals to compare with NT manuscripts, either. So...
 
Old 04-17-2001, 12:34 PM   #10
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Very true Aikido7, but at least we have NT MSS to examine which provide us with a pretty good idea of what was originally there.

Currently, only pictures of Secret Mark are available for scholarly examination.

Ish
 
 

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